(12-31-2015, 04:58 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:

(12-31-2015, 04:30 PM)Duchess Wrote: Now, back to Tamir before Hot D kicks my ass.

Hey, I haven't kicked anybody's ass for side conversation in here.

I've only moved MS's ongoing sex talk into a dedicated thread.

Happy New Year Duchess and MS.

Happy New Year to you too HotD.

Staying up 'til Midnight?

(12-31-2015, 04:19 PM)Cutz Wrote: Because the moral of the story is that some guy called the cops because he was afraid for people at the park. If he was positive it was a kid with a toy, he doesn't make the call. He thought it was a dude with a gun. As far as the response goes, it's usually safer to treat a possible threat as a threat. The driver put them in a bad position and Tamir put himself in danger, twice. All of that has nothing to do with racially motivated murdering cops as some would tell the story.

The 911 caller told the operator that a male was waving a gun around and scaring people. And, he said that he thought it was probably a juvenile with a fake gun. He also described the male.

McGinty contends that had the officers been given all of the relevant information provided by the 911 caller, it might have changed the officers' approach and changed the outcome.

McGinty [prosecutor] argued that Tamir’s death was caused by a ‘perfect storm of human error, mistakes and miscommunications by all involved that day’ but there was no evidence of criminal misconduct by police. The two officers believed they were responding to a ‘potential active shooter situation’ and had not been provided with crucial details of a 911 call reporting that Rice was probably a juvenile with a gun that was ‘probably fake’, McGinty said.

‘Had the officers been aware of these qualifiers, the training officer who was driving might have approached the scene with less urgency; lives may not have been put at stake,’ McGinty said.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/...y-loehmann

In any case, the 911 dispatcher is no longer a dispatcher and I'm anxious to hear the status of the officers. That review is still in progress.

(12-31-2015, 05:04 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote:

(12-31-2015, 04:58 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:

(12-31-2015, 04:30 PM)Duchess Wrote: Now, back to Tamir before Hot D kicks my ass.

Hey, I haven't kicked anybody's ass for side conversation in here.

I've only moved MS's ongoing sex talk into a dedicated thread.

Happy New Year Duchess and MS.

Happy New Year to you too HotD.

Staying up 'til Midnight?

Yeah, I'm taking my niece to see Seth McFarlane sing with the San Francisco Symphony tonight. She loves him and he's a very good vocalist. Should be fun and interesting.

We'll stay up til midnight, and then we're hitting the road early in the morning down to Southern California for a couple of days.

Hopefully, the scheduling crap that hit me this morning will be resolved in the next couple of hours.

So what you're saying is... storms are racist.

First New Orleans, now this.

(Yes I know you're not saying that.)

^ Gunnar posting as Cutz?

McGinty believes the death of Tamir Rice is due to a perfect storm of human error by all involved.

I think people who deny that systematic racism still exists in this country are wrong; I see it even though I wish it didn't exist. But, I don't think racism is a factor every time police officers shoot people of a different race, not by a long shot. With all the facts available now, I don't think race was a factor in Tamir's killing, but I do think incompetence factored heavily into it.

I don't think race was a factor in the shooting of Chris Few and his six year old son (both white) by two blacks cops in Louisiana either. The facts known to date don't point in that direction. But, the murder investigation is still ongoing.

There's no logical reasons why the cops who shot Walter Scott and Laquan McDonald did so when their lives were not being threatened, and then tried to float a false narrative and covered up, only to be busted out by video. Those murder investigations are still underway and the fact that the cops and the incapacitated subjects they unloaded their weapons into are of different races may not go to motive. Or, investigators may uncover evidence that they did in fact have racial motives, and/or any number of other motives. We don't have enough info to logically rule anything in or out at this time.

Case by case.

(And I knew you weren't really saying that I was saying that).

As far as I'm concerned the prosecutor didn't have the interest or balls to pursue the case--hence the grand jury's decision.

At least in certain cases, I think using a grand jury ought not be an option and the case should go through the preliminary hearing process instead.

Yeah, in certain cases we should just ignore the rule of law too. Who cares about procedural justice? When the population just feels like someone is wrong, we should just throw them in jail and forget about em.

All prisoners put in jail for over 5 yrs should be required to stay in pink rooms, eat tofu and wear bunny slippers. During the week they should have jobs hand cleaning the linen and bed sheets from nursing homes and maternity wards. On the weekends they could watch all day lone ranger marathons.

(01-01-2016, 09:48 AM)Cutz Wrote: Yeah, in certain cases we should just ignore the rule of law too. Who cares about procedural justice? When the population just feels like someone is wrong, we should just throw them in jail and forget about em.

You should add "can leap tall buildings" to your resume if it's not there already. That was impressive.

Anyway, it's not about ignoring the law, nutfuck. It's a procedural concern. Especially in a case where a police officer is involved...it's my opinion that there's a certain sort of incestuous relationship between the prosecutor's office and the police (not to mention supposedly impartial judges but that's from personal experience so I won't bore you with those details). A preliminary hearing seems like a more just approach as to whether or not the officer ought to be charged or indicted.

Anyway, here's some basic information for your reading pleasure.


48 States, Washington D.C Use Grand Juries for Indictments

According to the University of Dayton Law School of Law, all but two states, plus the District of Columbia, use grand juries for criminal indictments in at least some cases. Connecticut and Pennsylvania have both abolished the use of grand juries for criminal indictments. But both of these states still make use of grand juries for investigations of criminal activity.

In 23 states, indictments are required for certain serious crimes. These states are: Alabama, Alaska, Delaware, Florida, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, and West Virginia.

In the 25 other states, a grand jury indictment is optional. In those states, charges may be brought by a document called the information. In many states, an information is written by a prosecutor, similar to the initial criminal complaint, but is reserved only for felony or serious charges. Typically an information is filed after a preliminary hearing, including those charges which were found supported by probable cause.

Preliminary Hearings

In states where indictments are not required, whether probable cause exists to charge a defendant with a crime may be determined at a preliminary hearing. At a preliminary hearing, a judge will listen to arguments from both sides before determining whether or not the case should proceed to a criminal trial.

(01-01-2016, 03:17 PM)username Wrote: Anyway, here's some basic information for your reading pleasure.

Thanks, I've had law classes.

I'll file this away under J, between Jurisprudence and Just Don't Give a Fuck.

(12-31-2015, 08:26 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: ^ Gunnar posting as Cutz?

McGinty believes the death of Tamir Rice is due to a perfect storm of human error by all involved.

I think people who deny that systematic racism still exists in this country are wrong; I see it even though I wish it didn't exist. But, I don't think racism is a factor every time police officers shoot people of a different race, not by a long shot. With all the facts available now, I don't think race was a factor in Tamir's killing, but I do think incompetence factored heavily into it.

I don't think race was a factor in the shooting of Chris Few and his six year old son (both white) by two blacks cops in Louisiana either. The facts known to date don't point in that direction. But, the murder investigation is still ongoing.

There's no logical reasons why the cops who shot Walter Scott and Laquan McDonald did so when their lives were not being threatened, and then tried to float a false narrative and covered up, only to be busted out by video. Those murder investigations are still underway and the fact that the cops and the incapacitated subjects they unloaded their weapons into are of different races may not go to motive. Or, investigators may uncover evidence that they did in fact have racial motives, and/or any number of other motives. We don't have enough info to logically rule anything in or out at this time.

Case by case.

(And I knew you weren't really saying that I was saying that).

Humans are animals, some species of animals are normally more dangerous than others, it's observation not racism.

There's basically only one species of humans. We're pretty much all Homo sapiens.

Racist.

What about Canines?

maybe thinking breeds instead of races would make people think about how animalistic we are even though we do our best to deny and hide it.

There are many humorous things in the world; among them, the white man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages.~ Mark Twain

(01-01-2016, 09:56 PM)BigMark Wrote: Humans are animals, some species of animals are normally more dangerous than others, it's observation not racism.

When I first read this post ^, I considered it the dopiest thing I've read in weeks...

(01-02-2016, 01:58 AM)BigMark Wrote: maybe thinking breeds instead of races would make people think about how animalistic we are even though we do our best to deny and hide it.

...then I read this post ^.

I'm not sure you actually know the definitions of 'observation', 'species', 'animal', 'breed' or 'racism'. If you did, you'd see that your suggestion about how people should think is ignorant.

I know one thing. BigMark is a big dumb animal. The kind that runs headfirst into glass.

Civil Lawsuit Settled

This weekend, the city of Cleveland chose to settle with the Rice family rather than go to civil trial for wrongful death. The city will pay the Rice family $6,000,000.

Tamir's family and their attorney pushed hard for a special prosecutor and criminal trials of the two officers involved in the boy's shooting death two years ago. Earlier this year, the Grand Jury declined to indict either officer and both remain on restrictive duty pending the completion of an internal investigation.

Story:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/city...d3f723d3f6

Also, the District Attorney, McGinty, who was widely criticized for his handling of the Rice case lost re-election in March.

The Internal Investigation

While the grand jury failed to indict Officers Loehmann and Garmback on criminal charges for the shooting death of 12-year-old Tamir Rice two and a half years ago, details of the internal Cleveland PD investigation have been released.

The 911 Dispatcher - Violated Protocol; Suspended for 8 Days

The 911 dispatcher who took a call that led to the police officer's fatal shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice has been suspended for eight days.

Police Chief Calvin Williams found in a disciplinary letter dated March 10 that Constance Hollinger violated protocol the day of the shooting of Tamir Rice, who had been playing with a pellet gun.

Tamir was shot within seconds of a police cruiser skidding to a stop just a few feet away from him in November 2014 outside the Cleveland rec center.

The city's internal disciplinary charges accused Hollinger of failing to tell the dispatcher who sent the officers to the rec center that the man who called 911 about 'a guy' pointing a gun at people also said it could be a juvenile and the gun might be a 'fake.'

That omission was cited by former Cuyahoga County prosecutor Timothy J. McGinty as a crucial mistake that impacted how officers Timothy Loehmann and Frank Garmback responded. Loehmann shot and killed Tamir less than two seconds after they arrived.

McGinty said the shooting might have been avoided if the information from the 911 caller had been properly relayed to the officers.

'Eight days for gross negligence resulting in the death of a 12-year-old boy,' Rice's attorney, Subodh Chandra, said in the statement. 'How pathetic is that?'

ETA: +1 @username, -1 @Cutz

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