(12-05-2018, 05:31 PM)Duchess Wrote:

(12-05-2018, 04:45 PM)Fry Guy Wrote: Who is overseeing the Russia investigation? It WAS Rosenstein but who is it now?

IF they have nothing on Flynn but perjury AND he has been giving good information to DO investigation (Huber/Horowitz), is Whittaker going to ALLOW Mueller to hurt Flynn?

If there is no collusion between Trump and Putin (and there is not), what would wearing a wire or talking to Putin do?

If Stone did not know about hacking via Wiki leaks as he has said, how does having his documents make him "screwed"

None of this seems to make sense?

One doesn't have 19 meetings with Prosecutors regarding perjury. There's something there.

"allow Mueller to hurt Flynn"  What the hell does that even mean?

Flynn has given Prosecutors something/s big. Bigley! 

I think Flynn has committed crimes on trump's behalf. 

One doesn't have 19 meetings about perjury. Well who the Hell said he did? "Well he met with Mueller 19 times and he perjured himself and he is co-operating with Mueller....." And? "...and so the co-operation MUST be about his perjury and giving up make-believe dirt on Trump. Right?" No, you are wrong. Flynnn IS helping Mueller and Mueller is NOT ONLY investigating Trump nor collusion with the Trump Administration. Who is Tony Podesta? When is HE being interviewed and what for and who else is being interviewed soon? Who else is getting intervioewed after that and what on? Who is related to Tony Podesta and in which way? Why are you assuming he is co-operating AGAINST Trump?
Sure, Flynn has been helping out prosecutors but Whittaker is overseeing both The Mueller and the Huber investigations and between the two Flynn is helping bigly. Mueller is working FOR Whittaker.He is NOT a free agent or able to inestigate what he pleases nor does he have ultimate say over who to prosecute and what charges to seek. Rosenstein gave him almost unlimited freedom and Whittaker will not. Whittaker will not want to hurt Flynn because of the help and quality intel Flynn has given up.
You think Flynn committed crimes on Trump's behalf. Great imagination.

(12-05-2018, 05:40 PM)Rootilda Wrote: "Trump arrested after Putin gives testimony and provides receipts that Trump colluded with Russia" ~ headlines around the world in every language.

If there is no collusion between Trump and Putin ~ fryguy

There is no collusion between Trump and Putin. It is silly to bandy this about. Considering where Mueller is going now, it is ridiculous.

(12-05-2018, 07:27 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: The bushes are really buzzing with bees then.

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s team has indicted or gotten guilty pleas from 33 people and three companies that we know of.

That group is composed of five former Trump advisers, 26 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer. Seven of these people (including now all five former Trump aides) have pleaded guilty.

The allegations vary, encompassing both election interference charges against overseas Russians, and various other crimes by American Trump advisers, including lying to investigators about campaign-related activity.

It looks to me like Mueller is ready to tie it all together. If there's no evidence of intentional wrong-doing by Trump or any more of his campaign members, then the report will show it. If there is evidence of intentional wrong-doing by Trump or any more of his campaign members, there will likely be more indictments in the next couple of months, followed by trials (or guilty pleas).

It's important to get it right and it's been moving at a pretty fast pace, in my opinion.

The Watergate investigation into Nixon lasted longer than 2 years. The Foster/Whitewater/Lewinsky investigation of Bill Clinton lasted 3 years. The Republican House investigated Hillary Clinton in regards to the Benghazi attacks for nearly 4 years.

No they really aren't "buzzing with bees".

"Show me the man, and I’ll show you the crime."

- Lavrentiy Beria, head of Joseph Stalin’s secret police

Mueller is SUPPOSED to investigate collusion and co-ordination between the Trump campaign and The Russian Government to win the 2016 election.
What does he have to that end? Which of the "33 people and three companies that we know of.

That group is composed of five former Trump advisers, 26 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer. Seven of these people (including now all five former Trump aides) have pleaded guilty." HAVE ANYTHING to do with that objective? ANY? Seriously, any at all?

Now, in no particular order....

Cohen agreed to plead guilty to a crime that is not a crime.
The Russian Nationals had nothing to do with Trump and their sentence will never be served, it was a decorative charge of no real substance
Charges of perjury and perjury traps in general are of no real value. He is simply trying to pad numbers.
* If you remember something in one way and your memory let's you down, have you lied if it is proved your version is not correct? Yes or no?
* If your interpretation of an event, action or exchange is different to someone else's are they right or are you?
* If your belief is different to someone else's are you lying or are they?

Now in normal every day that does not matter so much:
You study for what specifically is in a test and you do not get 100%, the teacher is not going to say that you lied but rather they will accept your memory recall is not 100% all the time.
You witness a robbery, police will accept your "version" of what happened will be different from others, if you get the race, height, build, clothes or genderof the criminal incorrect, the police are not going to accuse you of lying

IN front of a special counsel this "latitude" disappears,. They have "their" perspective and if what you say does not match their"truth" you have just perjured yourself.

So if we take out this as crimes that are in no way part of Russian collusion and also not in existence were it not fro the investigation (they did not exist at time of the probe AND they may not be perjury), what is left?

That number drops down substantially.

Still no evidence of Donald Trump colluding and co-ordinating with the Russian Government.

There has been no adherence of or to the orginal mission. He has just run around pinning crimes to people to justify his $40 million.

(12-06-2018, 01:41 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:

(12-05-2018, 07:38 PM)Duchess Wrote: So there!

Jr. is going to get indicted. Yup. Uh huh.

According to FOX News Legal Analyst Andrew Napolitano, Jr. believes there is cause for him to be indicted for lying to Congress about the Trump Tower meeting with the Russian lawyer. Napolitano suspects Jr. is correct.

And, after seeing the Flynn court doc and sentencing recommendation memo yesterday, Napolitano said the President himself should be extremely uncomfortable as well.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-secu...by-mueller

Okay lets say Trump Jnr gets indicted. As ridiculous a that would be. Why? Because Mueller is saying that the meeting was about Russian collusion. Now let's step away from a few facts of who these people were and how the meeting was set up and who the "Russians" concerned were liasing with before and after the meeting, what was the meeting about and what did he tell Mueller it was about.
Donald Trump Jnr said it was about adoptions. Absolutely true. They went to the meeting. They talked exclusively about that and he wound up the meeting.
"But it was supposed to be about Dirt on Hillary". Retarded argument, it was supposed to be but it wasn't. I was going to do something I did not do, therefore I am guilty of doing the thing I did not do. Its retarded.
That is without considering whether getting opposition information is okay or not, whether there was anything there, whether he considered this promoter's puffery as puffery or not, and so on.
Now we KNOW Mueller wants to present the narrative that will pin a crime on someone BUT that does not mean that Mueller's interpretation of the situation is right, best or will stand up to judgment.

I'm so excited to rub your face in indictments.

(12-06-2018, 07:29 AM)Duchess Wrote: I'm so excited to rub your face in indictments.

Why?

Probably because you are one of those willful idiots sticking fingers in their ears and yelling "lalalalala I can't HEAR you" as it becomes more and more evident you backed and continue to support a criminal empire.

My guess anyway.

Your guess is spot on.

I think she meant cleavage.

Okay, let's take it completely the other way.

When it comes to light that I was right in what I said and the Russia collusion myth was a poorly driven narrative driven by a politically driven and weaponised Intelligence community in tandem with the Hillary campaign...what should I do to rub this In YOUR faces?

When after everyone has their day in court, ther appears no real connection to any member of the Trump campaign and the Russian government, AND that the most they got were perjury traps that had nothing to do with the mission, a handful of Russian trolls who never attended court and are ultimately not affected by any "punishment" meted by the court (and again not associated with the Trump campaign) AND the bombshell news that slimy lobbyist Mannafort was slimy....are you, Donovan, going to admit you are full of bullshit and I was right? Just curious?

(12-06-2018, 04:36 PM)Fry Guy Wrote: ...what should I do to rub this In YOUR faces?

When after everyone has their day in court, ther appears no real connection to any member of the Trump campaign and the Russian government, AND that the most they got were perjury traps that had nothing to do with the mission, a handful of Russian trolls who never attended court and are ultimately not affected by any "punishment" meted by the court (and again not associated with the Trump campaign) AND the bombshell news that slimy lobbyist Mannafort was slimy....are you, Donovan, going to admit you are full of bullshit and I was right? Just curious?

If you were moved to, I would certainly understand.

...and if you are right, I would say that to you. I don't have a problem saying so when I'm wrong.

(12-06-2018, 12:09 PM)Duchess Wrote: Your guess is spot on.

Simple question, even were it the case that I have a different opinion to you and see things from an entirely different perspective AND even were I incorrect in my assessments, why would you, not only care enough to but get joy out of rubbing my face in being incorrect?

Simple question, I want to know the pathology behind that?

Me? I would just think "Thank God they have all caught up and are on the same page" (and maybe laugh at the more hysterical denouncements)

(12-06-2018, 05:32 PM)Fry Guy Wrote: Simple question, even were it the case that I have a different opinion to you and see things from an entirely different perspective AND even were I incorrect in my assessments, why would you, not only care enough to but get joy out of rubbing my face in being incorrect?

...because I'm an awful person, Fry Guy. Awful, just awful.  

(12-06-2018, 05:41 PM)Duchess Wrote:

(12-06-2018, 05:32 PM)Fry Guy Wrote: Simple question, even were it the case that I have a different opinion to you and see things from an entirely different perspective AND even were I incorrect in my assessments, why would you, not only care enough to but get joy out of rubbing my face in being incorrect?

...because I'm an awful person, Fry Guy. Awful, just awful.  

No, that is not the case. It is a serious question. Is it insecurity? Is it that your world view is fragile?

It kind of runs counter to the narrative that you would care if you were wrong (which seems pretty rational). If you don't care if you were wrong why would it matter so much if I were?

Doesn't make sense does it?

(12-06-2018, 05:53 PM)Fry Guy Wrote: No, that is not the case. It is a serious question. Is it insecurity? Is it that your world view is fragile?

It kind of runs counter to the narrative that you would care if you were wrong (which seems pretty rational). If you don't care if you were wrong why would it matter so much if I were?

Doesn't make sense does it?

It's probably extreme insecurity & a very delicate world view that borders on fragile. I'm sure it couldn't possibly be because I'm warped and will find it deeply satisfying to say I told ya so.  

Could be anything, I am asking you.

(12-06-2018, 05:41 PM)Duchess Wrote:

(12-06-2018, 05:32 PM)Fry Guy Wrote: Simple question, even were it the case that I have a different opinion to you and see things from an entirely different perspective AND even were I incorrect in my assessments, why would you, not only care enough to but get joy out of rubbing my face in being incorrect?

...because I'm an awful person, Fry Guy. Awful, just awful.  

We are all awful people. Weird awful people. And misery loves company.

Who in the fuck wants to be miserable?

(12-06-2018, 11:40 PM)BigMark Wrote: Who in the fuck wants to be miserable?

no one. I certainly ain't. I'm not 100% happy but...whatever.....we're just weird and awful...and as Meatloaf says....two out of three ain't bad.

Follow-up to posts #302 & #423:  
Another Guilty Plea in exchange for cooperation

 
Maria Butina, accused Russian agent, signed a plea deal on December 8^th.

She has agreed to plead guilty to conspiracy and cooperate with federal, state and local authorities in any ongoing investigations.

She admits as part of the deal that she and an unnamed “U.S. Person 1,” which sources have identified as longtime Republican operative Paul Erickson, with whom she had a multiyear romantic relationship, “agreed and conspired, with a Russian government official (“Russian Official”) and at least one other person, for Butina to act in the United States under the direction of Russian Official without prior notification to the Attorney General.”

Based on the description, the “Russian Official” appears to be Alexander Torshin, deputy governor of the Russian Central Bank and a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin. 

Under his direction, the agreement said, she “sought to establish unofficial lines of communication with Americans having power and influence over U.S. politics.”

(continued)

Butina used the National Rifle Association and the National Prayer Breakfast to infiltrate conservative political groups in the U.S.

Butina has acknowledged that with U.S. Person 1’s assistance, she drafted a proposal called “Description of the Diplomacy Project” in March of 2015 which was later sent to the Russian Official.

In the proposal, she acknowledged that she had already “laid the groundwork for an unofficial channel of communication with the next U.S. administration” and requested $125,000 from a Russian billionaire to attend conferences and meetings to further develop those ties.

The Russian Official, the agreement said, confirmed that her proposal would be at least partially supported.

(continued)

Butina’s Russian gun rights group “Right to Bear Arms” hosted a delegation of former NRA presidents, board members and major donors in Moscow in 2015, where she appears to have succeeded in arranging a meeting between NRA insiders and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

At that time, the prospect was raised of a discussion between conservative political operatives and a powerful member of Russian President Putin’s inner circle in the midst of a presidential campaign.

After that now infamous meeting, the plea agreement said, Butina sent the Russian Official a message, which was translated as saying “We should let them express their gratitude now, we will put pressure on them quietly later.”

Full story:  https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/maria-bu...d=59719083

Michael Cohen Sentenced



Cohen got 36 months behind bars for tax evasion, bank fraud, lying to Congress regarding the Trump Tower deal in Russia, and violating campaign finance laws when he paid off two of Trump's alleged mistresses (with Trump's approval) just ahead of the 2016 Presidential election.

Cohen told the NY federal judge that he was very sorry for his crimes, that he deserved shame but his family does not, and that his life went down the wrong path the day he agreed to work for Donald Trump to whom he developed 'blind loyalty'.

Cohen made his own choices (and benefited greatly financially from them).  Trump is implicated in only a couple of the charges filed against Cohen. Still, in my opinion, Cohen has been trying to pin all of his own criminal decisions on Trump for months.  The NY prosecutors and judge didn't buy it.

New York prosecutors argued against Cohen's attorney's request for probation because they said Cohen's crimes were serious and Cohen did not answer all of their questions regarding his past criminal activity.

The judge gave Cohen some credit for cooperating with the Mueller investigation, but not a substantial amount.  Cohen didn't get the maximum sentence, but he'll do nearly 3 years behind bars even if he gets a little time shaved for good behavior (no parole available in federal prison).  He's expected to start serving his sentence on March 6^th.