D, the key to my original answer was the last sentence in OP's quote:

>>>>>>
If Kerry hadn't told me that and I had touched the dog's belly and she bit me who is at fault?, me or the dog?
<<<<<<<<<<

How can it be the dog's fault if she never told him not to pet it a certain way? It can't. It can only be her fault for putting OP in that situation un-warned.

If I had any kind of animal that needed rules to petting it, I lock it up until the people go home. Does not matter how gentle the animal is - it has that 'exception'. Why chance it?

Any animal that has the audacity to growl at my guests will be put away! And if I were in your home and your dogs growled at me because they were 'done' being petted, I'd be asking for them to be put away or I'd leave if this caused my host to be insulted. That is intolerable behavior with guests in your house.

That's your opinion, but he is very well trained. Just finicky. So he growls, big fucking deal. Its just a soft growl to say, "Hey, I'm ready to be left alone now". What's wrong with that? Not a damned thing. Its not a vicious growl or anything. You of all people should know that a dog can growl in several different ways. None of my Mom's dogs are put away unless it is a major event with lots of people. They are members of the family too, and as long as you respect them, they're fine. You treat them bad and you deserve whatever you get.

• Jasmine will tolerate just about anything (Black Lab)
  
• Trucker won't tolerate much, and doesn't like most people. But he ignores you unless you bother him (Jack Russel)
  
• Piggy would tolerate a lot, but she had "spots" because her previous owner abused her and left her damaged. Still, all you had to do was pay attention to her... she would give you indications she didn't like it. (Deceased Rottweiler)
  

The other dogs at my Mom's belong to my sister, and THEY do have to be put up, because they're not trained very well. One is a Golden Retriever/German Shepherd mix, the other is Chow/German Shepherd. They're not mean, but they don't leave people alone. For instance Chucky (the part Chow) will jump on you and paw at you if you stop petting him. Unfortunately my sister can't train dogs worth shit and doesn't belong having them. Oh well, my mom is working on them.

I guess my point is, the dog should not be punished by being locked away just because YOU can't follow the rules. The dog isn't doing anything wrong, YOU are. If you're told to leave someone's animal alone, and you go and start petting it, I'm gonna LAUGH when you get bit. The dog should be able to lay on the couch and be unmolested if you're told not to touch it at all.

(12-14-2009, 02:37 PM)D Wrote: ... Frank, I never said the dog should be put down. I think you're hallucinating again. Lay off the bong man.

Reading comprehension time. I didn't say that. I said I "added" that as my position.

Nice try, frank but you're so stupid, you read "put away" as "put down."

I said put down, but thanks.

D, you give people too much credit. You cannot expect anyone that hasn't extensive experience training dogs to know the difference between different types of growls. You shouldn't have to lay down rules about petting your animals. They should be well behaved with guests at all times. You can't expect every guest in your house to be expertise in animal behavior and danger signals.

Regardless that they are part of the family, I wouldn't put my animals in such a position to cause them to bite someone. Your scenario is an equation for trouble. The only one that will suffer when you laugh at them being bit is the dog. Unless Michigan has no dog bite laws and or the person that got bit does not report it, the dog will suffer.

(12-14-2009, 03:38 PM)The Antagonist Wrote: Regardless that they are part of the family, I wouldn't put my animals in such a position to cause them to bite someone. Your scenario is an equation for trouble. The only one that will suffer when you laugh at them being bit is the dog. Unless Michigan has no dog bite laws and or the person that got bit does not report it, the dog will suffer.

Well, it should say something that only one person has been bit in my 28 years alive. And that was when I was in like the 6^th grade, the 2 neighbor girls were over (Nikki Parsons and her younger sister.... who's name escapes me right now) and the younger sister was literally TORMENTING the dog. So she deserved it.

As for the dog suffering, yes Michigan has dog bite laws, BUT they do allow you to fight it. And if you're tormenting my dog and get bit, the dog does not suffer. Still, like I said, with many people we do put the dogs in the back room. With only a couple people visiting we're there and can tell them to leave the dog alone when he gives his warning. But no, I don't think its giving people too much credit. If they're too dumb to leave the dog alone when he goes grr. They get warned by a human. If they keep pestering the dog, he'll switch to a GRRRRR, and at that point whoever is tormenting him is asked to leave and the dog is taken out of the room. My Mom has kicked 3 of her friends out of her house because they were drunk and wouldn't leave her dog alone. It all comes back to people needing to be responsible for their own actions. We hold these dogs responsible when its one or the other of the humans' fault. And its bullshit.

Jesus H Christ, I have 4 dogs and never had a problem with the son of a bitches. Can we put this "when animals attack" buisness to a rest now ::lol::

Nevermind, go on with it. I just noticed that I sounded like that douchebag Liquid.

(12-14-2009, 03:06 PM)D Wrote: That's your opinion, but he is very well trained. Just finicky. So he growls, big fucking deal. Its just a soft growl to say, "Hey, I'm ready to be left alone now". What's wrong with that? Not a damned thing. Its not a vicious growl or anything. You of all people should know that a dog can growl in several different ways. None of my Mom's dogs are put away unless it is a major event with lots of people. They are members of the family too, and as long as you respect them, they're fine. You treat them bad and you deserve whatever you get.

Yeah... I'm going to have to agree with Ant here. If you have a dog that's 'quirky' and known to bite for ANY FUCKING REASON, they should be put away when people are visiting. It's thinking like that that gets people bitten.

The problem is this: Dogs understand PACK hierarchy. Dogs that 'warn' people, or who bite with any consistency whatsoever, see themselves as being superior to those they are biting. A dog should never see itself in a position superior to a human. It's dangerous and irresponsible of the owners to let the dog get into that mentality.

It's one thing for a person to choose to keep a dog that they know might bite them, as long as they are the only person living with the dog. That is their choice and they have full knowledge of the situation. Expecting other people to come into the home and risk being bitten 'unless they follow the rules' is pretty inconsiderate.

Putting a dog in another room or area away from visitors is not 'punishing' the dog. Any dog with basic training should be able to stay in an area by itself, for a while, without being too upset about it.

When I had my dog (who was an Australian Shepherd/Border Collie/Cattle Dog mix) she was a fantastic dog, but she would try to nip other people in certain situations and I would always put her in another room when people came to visit me.

(12-14-2009, 07:56 PM)sally Wrote: Nevermind, go on with it. I just noticed that I sounded like that douchebag Liquid.

Where is that douchebag anyway? Decaying in some hole in the ground?

(12-14-2009, 07:56 PM)sally Wrote: Nevermind, go on with it. I just noticed that I sounded like that douchebag Liquid.

Cunt.

Sorry, but if you invite me to your home and I completely ignore your dog and it comes up and bites me for no reason it's getting my boot in it's face 2 seconds later.

If you tell me beforehand to be careful of doing certain things I will respect the dogs boundaries.

End of the day you are responsible as the owner for the dogs behaviour and if it can't behave around other people it should be kept away from them.

If I go to someones home and they have a dog I ignore it, if the dog approaches me I will always ask "is it okay to pet the dog?" before touching it.

(12-15-2009, 09:20 AM)Ordinary Peephole Wrote: Sorry, but if you invite me to your home and I completely ignore your dog and it comes up and bites me for no reason it's getting my boot in it's face 2 seconds later.

Who's dog does that? And you should boot the OWNER of it in the face, not the dog... unless you have to in order to get loose.

Quote:If you tell me beforehand to be careful of doing certain things I will respect the dogs boundaries.

See, its not that hard! Even Opie can do it!

Quote:End of the day you are responsible as the owner for the dogs behaviour and if it can't behave around other people it should be kept away from them.

So long as you follow your previous statement, I agree.

Quote:If I go to someones home and they have a dog I ignore it, if the dog approaches me I will always ask "is it okay to pet the dog?" before touching it.

Good call. Though I usually am able to pet dogs that most people can't. I've had many dogs lay in my lap and be big baby's and their owner's say, "I can't believe it, he normally hates everyone!" Dogs have an extra sense about people too, and a normally docile dog may attack someone simply because they sense that someone means evil. And vice versa.
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(12-15-2009, 01:44 PM)D Wrote: Though I usually am able to pet dogs that most people can't. I've had many dogs lay in my lap and be big baby's and their owner's say, "I can't believe it, he normally hates everyone!" Dogs have an extra sense about people too, and a normally docile dog may attack someone simply because they sense that someone means evil. And vice versa.

That happens because you're gay, you blonde/blowjob-hating fag.

What kinda dude doesn't like to see a head bobbing up & down in his lap ?...I think most of the chicks in here that are open minded have told him that he just hasn't been given good head or he would like it.

You're probably right, Duchess. Unless he is not really a full-blooded hetero, he either has some sort of dysfunction or, like you said, has been served a serious lack of talent.

D doesn't like blowjobs!?

Even a bad blowjob is still pretty good.

(12-15-2009, 03:43 PM)Ordinary Peephole Wrote: D doesn't like blowjobs!?

Even a bad blowjob is still pretty good.

Yep, D has explained to us all a while back how much he dislikes blow-jobs. Now, he "hates blonds." So, the thought of an attractive blond giving him a blow-job is something that repulses and/or scares him. I think he might be metro, like you.

(12-15-2009, 03:46 PM)Middle Finger Wrote: I think he might be metro, like you.

I doubt it, metrosexuals also happen to be heterosexuals, I think D's sexual hang ups are far more complex than that.

Not liking blowjobs is not normal behaviour.