(10-24-2024, 01:50 PM)Carsman Wrote: Screw Palestine, if the nutcase becomes POTUS, we need to be concerned with genocide 
occurring here in our country! 

Dude

(10-24-2024, 01:50 PM)Carsman Wrote: Screw Palestine, if the nutcase becomes POTUS, we need to be concerned with genocide 
occurring here in our country! 

I think we're safe unless the nutcase decides to actually nuke a tornado.

(10-24-2024, 02:14 PM)username Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 12:51 PM)rothschild Wrote: How many of those people have spoken out against the genocide in Palestine?

I heard Harris get a question in her CNN town hall last night; something to the effect of “will you support Israel”? It was a fucked up question that I don’t think could be answered with a simple “yes” w/out a crap ton of caveats around said “support” so Harris dodged it. I don’t recall exactly how she responded except to go off to say “anything I might or might do, Trump would be worse”. Not her finest moment.

That said I think anyone concerned about the Palestinians in Gaza would be far better off voting for her than Trump (so it surprises me to hear about the movements in Michigan to possibly not vote at all in protest—basically giving their votes to Trump). But as a candidate I think she’s expressed her displeasure with how BB is conducting this “war” to the best she can in the moment. She’s stuck between the “free Palestine” movement and Jews who think anything less than 100% support for Israel is anti semitism. *rolls eyes*

"stuck" in that she can't afford to lose progressive votes or Zionist money. A political quandary having nothing to do with morality. Without moral authority, questioning Trump's character is merely partisan sniping. An attempt to obfuscate the harsh reality that those who are comfortable with genocide are morally bankrupt and lack even a shred of human decency.

(10-24-2024, 05:19 PM)rothschild Wrote:  Without moral authority, questioning Trump's character is merely partisan sniping. 

My eyeballs rolled right out of my head, rothschild.

(10-24-2024, 05:22 PM)Duchess Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 05:19 PM)rothschild Wrote:  Without moral authority, questioning Trump's character is merely partisan sniping. 

My eyeballs rolled right out of my head, rothschild.

What evils lie beyond genocide? Once a person crosses that line their humanity is gone. Terms such as "fascist" or "dictator" are redundant. They do no justice to the magnitude of depravity that exists at that point.

(10-24-2024, 05:19 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 02:14 PM)username Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 12:51 PM)rothschild Wrote: How many of those people have spoken out against the genocide in Palestine?

I heard Harris get a question in her CNN town hall last night; something to the effect of “will you support Israel”? It was a fucked up question that I don’t think could be answered with a simple “yes” w/out a crap ton of caveats around said “support” so Harris dodged it. I don’t recall exactly how she responded except to go off to say “anything I might or might do, Trump would be worse”. Not her finest moment.

That said I think anyone concerned about the Palestinians in Gaza would be far better off voting for her than Trump (so it surprises me to hear about the movements in Michigan to possibly not vote at all in protest—basically giving their votes to Trump). But as a candidate I think she’s expressed her displeasure with how BB is conducting this “war” to the best she can in the moment. She’s stuck between the “free Palestine” movement and Jews who think anything less than 100% support for Israel is anti semitism. *rolls eyes*

"stuck" in that she can't afford to lose progressive votes or Zionist money. A political quandary having nothing to do with morality. Without moral authority, questioning Trump's character is merely partisan sniping. An attempt to obfuscate the harsh reality that those who are comfortable with genocide are morally bankrupt and lack even a shred of human decency.

How on earth do u square that with Trump’s anti Muslim policies and propaganda along with his completely racist and false rhetoric against immigrants of all nationalities? You can’t. Trump has no “moral authority”. He’s pandering to white voters and playing on their fears of “others”. He doesn’t have ANY moral high ground to stand on. Actually while I didn’t love Kamala’s answer I respect and agree with the fact that it’s a fucking complicated situation and I appreciate thoughtfulness and due respect to that. I  don’t agree with how BB has conducted this war and the genocide in Gaza (or West Bank actions by Israel) but I completely understand the initial goal of wiping out the threat of Hamas. 
I haven’t heard Trump say anything about stopping the genocide…far from it. To my knowledge he’s been mum on the issue (except to say ¹⁰⁄₇ would never have happened if he were POTUS). Empty words.

(10-24-2024, 06:24 PM)username Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 05:19 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 02:14 PM)username Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 12:51 PM)rothschild Wrote: How many of those people have spoken out against the genocide in Palestine?

I heard Harris get a question in her CNN town hall last night; something to the effect of “will you support Israel”? It was a fucked up question that I don’t think could be answered with a simple “yes” w/out a crap ton of caveats around said “support” so Harris dodged it. I don’t recall exactly how she responded except to go off to say “anything I might or might do, Trump would be worse”. Not her finest moment.

That said I think anyone concerned about the Palestinians in Gaza would be far better off voting for her than Trump (so it surprises me to hear about the movements in Michigan to possibly not vote at all in protest—basically giving their votes to Trump). But as a candidate I think she’s expressed her displeasure with how BB is conducting this “war” to the best she can in the moment. She’s stuck between the “free Palestine” movement and Jews who think anything less than 100% support for Israel is anti semitism. *rolls eyes*

"stuck" in that she can't afford to lose progressive votes or Zionist money. A political quandary having nothing to do with morality. Without moral authority, questioning Trump's character is merely partisan sniping. An attempt to obfuscate the harsh reality that those who are comfortable with genocide are morally bankrupt and lack even a shred of human decency.

How on earth do u square that with Trump’s anti Muslim policies and propaganda along with his completely racist and false rhetoric against immigrants of all nationalities? You can’t. Trump has no “moral authority”. He’s pandering to white voters and playing on their fears of “others”. He doesn’t have ANY moral high ground to stand on. Actually while I didn’t love Kamala’s answer I respect and agree with the fact that it’s a fucking complicated situation and I appreciate thoughtfulness and due respect to that. I  don’t agree with how BB has conducted this war and the genocide in Gaza (or West Bank actions by Israel) but I completely understand the initial goal of wiping out the threat of Hamas. 
I haven’t heard Trump say anything about stopping the genocide…far from it. To my knowledge he’s been mum on the issue (except to say ¹⁰⁄₇ would never have happened if he were POTUS). Empty words.

Doesn't It go without saying that Trump has no moral authority? Doesn't it go without saying that Trump will do exactly what the Biden administration has done to help Israel's extermination campaign?

Do you know the history of Zionism and the manner in which Israel was established?

(10-24-2024, 06:46 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 06:24 PM)username Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 05:19 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 02:14 PM)username Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 12:51 PM)rothschild Wrote: How many of those people have spoken out against the genocide in Palestine?

I heard Harris get a question in her CNN town hall last night; something to the effect of “will you support Israel”? It was a fucked up question that I don’t think could be answered with a simple “yes” w/out a crap ton of caveats around said “support” so Harris dodged it. I don’t recall exactly how she responded except to go off to say “anything I might or might do, Trump would be worse”. Not her finest moment.

That said I think anyone concerned about the Palestinians in Gaza would be far better off voting for her than Trump (so it surprises me to hear about the movements in Michigan to possibly not vote at all in protest—basically giving their votes to Trump). But as a candidate I think she’s expressed her displeasure with how BB is conducting this “war” to the best she can in the moment. She’s stuck between the “free Palestine” movement and Jews who think anything less than 100% support for Israel is anti semitism. *rolls eyes*

"stuck" in that she can't afford to lose progressive votes or Zionist money. A political quandary having nothing to do with morality. Without moral authority, questioning Trump's character is merely partisan sniping. An attempt to obfuscate the harsh reality that those who are comfortable with genocide are morally bankrupt and lack even a shred of human decency.

How on earth do u square that with Trump’s anti Muslim policies and propaganda along with his completely racist and false rhetoric against immigrants of all nationalities? You can’t. Trump has no “moral authority”. He’s pandering to white voters and playing on their fears of “others”. He doesn’t have ANY moral high ground to stand on. Actually while I didn’t love Kamala’s answer I respect and agree with the fact that it’s a fucking complicated situation and I appreciate thoughtfulness and due respect to that. I  don’t agree with how BB has conducted this war and the genocide in Gaza (or West Bank actions by Israel) but I completely understand the initial goal of wiping out the threat of Hamas. 
I haven’t heard Trump say anything about stopping the genocide…far from it. To my knowledge he’s been mum on the issue (except to say ¹⁰⁄₇ would never have happened if he were POTUS). Empty words.

Doesn't It go without saying that Trump has no moral authority? Doesn't it go without saying that Trump will do exactly what the Biden administration has done to help Israel's extermination campaign?

Do you know the history of Zionism and the manner in which Israel was established?

1) Yes, 2), I don’t think there’s any limits to Trump’s support of Israel so I doubt he’d even be hinting at withholding arms as the current administration is doing (and saying publicly that Putin has gone too far and pushing for more aid for Gaza and 3) yes again. I know how the current state of Israel came to be and the centuries of history prior to that.

I don’t agree with what’s happening in Gaza and I think Trump would do even less to address it. But it really shouldn’t be an executive decision. Why hasn’t this been taken up by the house and senate? Too hot to handle for all our legislators?

(10-24-2024, 07:22 PM)username Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 06:46 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 06:24 PM)username Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 05:19 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 02:14 PM)username Wrote: I heard Harris get a question in her CNN town hall last night; something to the effect of “will you support Israel”? It was a fucked up question that I don’t think could be answered with a simple “yes” w/out a crap ton of caveats around said “support” so Harris dodged it. I don’t recall exactly how she responded except to go off to say “anything I might or might do, Trump would be worse”. Not her finest moment.

That said I think anyone concerned about the Palestinians in Gaza would be far better off voting for her than Trump (so it surprises me to hear about the movements in Michigan to possibly not vote at all in protest—basically giving their votes to Trump). But as a candidate I think she’s expressed her displeasure with how BB is conducting this “war” to the best she can in the moment. She’s stuck between the “free Palestine” movement and Jews who think anything less than 100% support for Israel is anti semitism. *rolls eyes*

"stuck" in that she can't afford to lose progressive votes or Zionist money. A political quandary having nothing to do with morality. Without moral authority, questioning Trump's character is merely partisan sniping. An attempt to obfuscate the harsh reality that those who are comfortable with genocide are morally bankrupt and lack even a shred of human decency.

How on earth do u square that with Trump’s anti Muslim policies and propaganda along with his completely racist and false rhetoric against immigrants of all nationalities? You can’t. Trump has no “moral authority”. He’s pandering to white voters and playing on their fears of “others”. He doesn’t have ANY moral high ground to stand on. Actually while I didn’t love Kamala’s answer I respect and agree with the fact that it’s a fucking complicated situation and I appreciate thoughtfulness and due respect to that. I  don’t agree with how BB has conducted this war and the genocide in Gaza (or West Bank actions by Israel) but I completely understand the initial goal of wiping out the threat of Hamas. 
I haven’t heard Trump say anything about stopping the genocide…far from it. To my knowledge he’s been mum on the issue (except to say ¹⁰⁄₇ would never have happened if he were POTUS). Empty words.

Doesn't It go without saying that Trump has no moral authority? Doesn't it go without saying that Trump will do exactly what the Biden administration has done to help Israel's extermination campaign?

Do you know the history of Zionism and the manner in which Israel was established?

1) Yes, 2), I don’t think there’s any limits to Trump’s support of Israel so I doubt he’d even be hinting at withholding arms as the current administration is doing (and saying publicly that Putin has gone too far and pushing for more aid for Gaza and 3) yes again. I know how the current state of Israel came to be and the centuries of history prior to that.

I don’t agree with what’s happening in Gaza and I think Trump would do even less to address it. But it really shouldn’t be an executive decision. Why hasn’t this been taken up by the house and senate? Too hot to handle for all our legislators?

There's no reason to think that the Biden admin has any intention of withholding arms. If they did they'd do it immediately, not wait until after the election when there will be no concern for progressive votes.

If you know the history of Zionism and Israel why do you believe that Israel has a right to defend itself against Palestinian resistance? Did the Nazis have a right to defend themselves against the French resistance?

Do states have an unconditional right to exist? I think the right to exist should be contingent on behaving in accordance with the norms of civilized society as expressed in international law. Violate those laws and sovereignty should be null and void.

What do you think?

(10-24-2024, 08:29 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 07:22 PM)username Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 06:46 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 06:24 PM)username Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 05:19 PM)rothschild Wrote: "stuck" in that she can't afford to lose progressive votes or Zionist money. A political quandary having nothing to do with morality. Without moral authority, questioning Trump's character is merely partisan sniping. An attempt to obfuscate the harsh reality that those who are comfortable with genocide are morally bankrupt and lack even a shred of human decency.

How on earth do u square that with Trump’s anti Muslim policies and propaganda along with his completely racist and false rhetoric against immigrants of all nationalities? You can’t. Trump has no “moral authority”. He’s pandering to white voters and playing on their fears of “others”. He doesn’t have ANY moral high ground to stand on. Actually while I didn’t love Kamala’s answer I respect and agree with the fact that it’s a fucking complicated situation and I appreciate thoughtfulness and due respect to that. I  don’t agree with how BB has conducted this war and the genocide in Gaza (or West Bank actions by Israel) but I completely understand the initial goal of wiping out the threat of Hamas. 
I haven’t heard Trump say anything about stopping the genocide…far from it. To my knowledge he’s been mum on the issue (except to say ¹⁰⁄₇ would never have happened if he were POTUS). Empty words.

Doesn't It go without saying that Trump has no moral authority? Doesn't it go without saying that Trump will do exactly what the Biden administration has done to help Israel's extermination campaign?

Do you know the history of Zionism and the manner in which Israel was established?

1) Yes, 2), I don’t think there’s any limits to Trump’s support of Israel so I doubt he’d even be hinting at withholding arms as the current administration is doing (and saying publicly that Putin has gone too far and pushing for more aid for Gaza and 3) yes again. I know how the current state of Israel came to be and the centuries of history prior to that.

I don’t agree with what’s happening in Gaza and I think Trump would do even less to address it. But it really shouldn’t be an executive decision. Why hasn’t this been taken up by the house and senate? Too hot to handle for all our legislators?

There's no reason to think that the Biden admin has any intention of withholding arms. If they did they'd do it immediately, not wait until after the election when there will be no concern for progressive votes.

If you know the history of Zionism and Israel why do you believe that Israel has a right to defend itself against Palestinian resistance? Did the Nazis have a right to defend themselves against the French resistance?

Do states have an unconditional right to exist? I think the right to exist should be contingent on behaving in accordance with the norms of civilized society as expressed in international law. Violate those laws and sovereignty should be null and void.

What do you think?

I’m heading to bed but it’s awfully naive of u to think that the Biden administration would withhold arms to Israel with just weeks left until the election. Of course they’re pandering to Jewish voters and simultaneously trying to give the more progressive/pro Palestinian base reason to believe they’ll take a harder line once Kamala is elected. It would be political suicide to do anything other than that. Duh. As I said, I think Trump’s prior words and actions indicate he’d be FAR less likely to be concerned about Palestinian genocide but to my knowledge, he’s been completely silent on the subject recently. He doesn’t have a progressive base (or anyone seemingly) asking him what he’d do to save innocent people in Gaza.

(10-24-2024, 11:54 PM)username Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 08:29 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(10-24-2024, 07:22 PM)username Wrote: 1) Yes, 2), I don’t think there’s any limits to Trump’s support of Israel so I doubt he’d even be hinting at withholding arms as the current administration is doing (and saying publicly that Putin has gone too far and pushing for more aid for Gaza and 3) yes again. I know how the current state of Israel came to be and the centuries of history prior to that.

I don’t agree with what’s happening in Gaza and I think Trump would do even less to address it. But it really shouldn’t be an executive decision. Why hasn’t this been taken up by the house and senate? Too hot to handle for all our legislators?

There's no reason to think that the Biden admin has any intention of withholding arms. If they did they'd do it immediately, not wait until after the election when there will be no concern for progressive votes.

If you know the history of Zionism and Israel why do you believe that Israel has a right to defend itself against Palestinian resistance? Did the Nazis have a right to defend themselves against the French resistance?

Do states have an unconditional right to exist? I think the right to exist should be contingent on behaving in accordance with the norms of civilized society as expressed in international law. Violate those laws and sovereignty should be null and void.

What do you think?

I’m heading to bed but it’s awfully naive of u to think that the Biden administration would withhold arms to Israel with just weeks left until the election. Of course they’re pandering to Jewish voters and simultaneously trying to give the more progressive/pro Palestinian base reason to believe they’ll take a harder line once Kamala is elected. It would be political suicide to do anything other than that. Duh. As I said, I think Trump’s prior words and actions indicate he’d be FAR less likely to be concerned about Palestinian genocide but to my knowledge, he’s been completely silent on the subject recently. He doesn’t have a progressive base (or anyone seemingly) asking him what he’d do to save innocent people in Gaza.

I don't think a Democratic administration will cut off arms shipments to Israel under any circumstances. Not now, not in 30 days, not ever. It's sick for them to have suggested that they would. And please don't tell me that Trump isn't any better because I am well aware of that.

The Biden admin has shown beyond all doubt that it has no humanitarian concern for the Palestinians. The likelihood of that changing under Harris is infinitesimal. Israel's survival is completely dependent on America's unconditional support. It will tolerate nothing that threatens it, and there is no reason to think that Harris doesn't understand that. She knows perfectly well what these people are capable of.

trump has said just this week that he talks to Bibi nearly everyday and it was a good thing he (Bibi) doesn't listen to Biden because he should just "finish the problem".

Stop trying to equate trump to every other fucking person! Jesus Christ this shit is old. They aren't the same! Not even close.

At least he talks to him, you can't get into someone's head and negotiate without talking. Also when he said finish the problem he also said to end the war as quickly as possible so there are no more killings. You left that part out though.

(10-25-2024, 09:24 AM)Duchess Wrote: trump has said just this week that he talks to Bibi nearly everyday and it was a good thing he (Bibi) doesn't listen to Biden because he should just "finish the problem".

Stop trying to equate trump to every other fucking person! Jesus Christ this shit is old. They aren't the same! Not even close.

The Biden administration is doing everything possible to help Netanyahu finish what he started.

Trump's saying it, the Biden admin is doing it.

(10-25-2024, 12:41 PM)sally Wrote: At least he talks to him, you can't get into someone's head and negotiate without talking. Also when he said finish the problem he also said to end the war as quickly as possible so there are no more killings. You left that part out though.

Part of the problem is how does BB and his war cabinet define “finishing the job”? Without a goal (he’s already “cut off the head of Hamas” and an exit strategy (none exists that I know of), there is no end in sight. 

I could see the Biden or Harris administration perhaps limiting the types and quantities of arms shipments to Israel to try to arm twist them into stopping the genocide. But Israel is seemingly heading for war with Iran soon so that’s going to be just peachy. BB would probably be much happier to have Trump as POTUS regardless.

It's the boogey man!

You should be appalled to see that from someone who aspires to be our Commander-in-Chief. 

(10-25-2024, 06:01 PM)Duchess Wrote: You should be appalled to see that from someone who aspires to be our Commander-in-Chief. 

There is nothing in American politics that doesn't appall me.

Complimenting murdering dictators.