(Yesterday, 12:53 AM)username Wrote:

(Yesterday, 12:27 AM)rothschild Wrote:

(11-03-2024, 11:47 PM)username Wrote:

(11-03-2024, 10:49 PM)sally Wrote: I'm glad you read 4 articles on fluoride and finally started educating yourself on the subject after 62 years, User. What Trump said was that it sounds okay to him, but he hasn't talked to RFK about it yet although it could be a possibility.

Like injecting bleach. This is the guy he’s saying he’s going to put in charge of health in some position in his administration.

Not surprised you’ve done and know nothing about the topic but like to bitch because no one’s handing you answers on a silver platter.

Trump’s “off the cuff” remarks aren’t cute or endearing or normal. I want a thoughtful POTUS that actually vets and researches this stuff before commenting or endorsing an idea first. Call me crazy.

Yeah, the Democratic Party is definitely the gold standard when it comes to thoughtfulness.  I mean, what could possibly be more thoughtful than allowing biological men into women's spaces, right? Or using Ukraine as a staging ground to attack Russia. Boy has that worked out well for Ukraine, let me tell you. Some amazing thoughtfulness right there, User. Absolutely amazing.

WTF? Are u high? What do u mean about “biological men in women’s places”? I’m fine with gender neutral bathrooms; as long as I don’t have to share a private one with ANYONE else. Are u talking about sports? Cuz the IOC allowed that in 2004 and Bush was president at the time. Clarify.

And the democrats used Ukraine to attack Russia? After they (and Trump) let Russia have Crimea? 

Cuz we’re just nice that way?

SMH. Just shut up. Ur credibility just went to minus zero.

You have no credibility when it comes to assessing credibility.

*Men* in women's prisons, *men* in women's restrooms, *men* in women's locker rooms. Conflating gender identity with biological sex, the end result of which is mass confusion and the bastardization of language and science. How about "gender affirmative healthcare"? How sick do you have to be to consider that thoughtful?

As for Russia, they made it crystal clear that NATO would not be tolerated in Ukraine, LONG before the invasion, and rightly so. You'd have to be an idiot to allow that to happen given that NATO refused to allow entry to the Russian Federation. It's a hostile entity that began to militarize Ukraine, which bears historical similarity to the Nazi remilitarization of the Rhineland. Unlike the French, who turned tail and ran home to build the Maginot Line, Russia stood it's ground and stopped NATO in it's tracks.

It's ironic because the West steadfastly claimed that NATO was the only thing that could defend Ukraine against Russia, and all it's managed to do is cause it's destruction. NATO has lost, Ukraine is largely uninhabitable, and Washington is left to claiming that there are North Korean soldiers trying to prevent the Russian front from collapsing. It's pathetic. Hundreds of billions of dollars have disappeared into the ether while the US economy has disintegrated. Because we were "defending democracy". Just like Bush and Cheney were bringing "democracy" to Iraq.

I feel bad for you because you don't have the excuse of being a drug addict. You're a typical, middle class American with the profundity of a mud puddle, convinced that you are knowledgeable when it comes to worldly matters -- and you are about to get a very rude awakening.

I'm not the only person who has put policy aside this election cycle. There are millions of people just like me who are voting to keep trump's grubby little paws off the presidency and a good number of those people are republicans, traditional republicans, not maga. There is a difference.

In DC riot fencing had to be put up around the VP's residence because of trump's incitement. Please don't ever think this is normal, it's not.

Has Maxine Waters given an update, as to the movement of the armed Trump supporters . . . coming down from the hills?

Or are they still in training?

RC, I’m not going to debate transgender rights or wrongs with u. I don’t have strong opinions in general about “men in women’s places” biological or transgender except in women’s sports. I’m not too worried about locker rooms or bathrooms or prisons so fret about that all u want on behalf of us women. Just understand that we want access to traditionally male dominated jobs (in the police, fire fighting and the military to name a few) and we’re not hypocrites.I DON’T agree with men, the government or religion dictating women’s reproductive rights.

Ukraine…so she was just asking to be raped based on the way she looked and the suggestive ways she was trying to get into NATO? Actually I don’t think Ukraine was ever going to get into NATO before Putin invaded. NATO was happy to string them along with that possibility “somewhere down the road and over the moon…” but it was also well known that that would give Putin severe diarrhea so nobody was in a rush over that. I gather Trump gave Ukraine some RPGs but it’s been pretty clear since the start of the invasion that Ukraine was far from militarized. You can count all the equipment they DIDN’T have based on all the weapons other nations have had to provide them since this war started. If NATO was planning some Russian invasion they sure as shit hadn’t done much of anything to prep Ukraine for that. Now however, some military hawks here and abroad think Ukraine should be allowed to join NATO immediately. And Finland and Sweden are in so how’s that working for Putin?

I don’t have an answer but I don’t blame the victim (Ukraine).

Just get it over with already.

RC=strawman

(Yesterday, 12:15 PM)username Wrote: Ukraine…so she was just asking to be raped based on the way she looked and the suggestive ways she was trying to get into NATO? Actually I don’t think Ukraine was ever going to get into NATO before Putin invaded. NATO was happy to string them along with that possibility “somewhere down the road and over the moon…” but it was also well known that that would give Putin severe diarrhea so nobody was in a rush over that. I gather Trump gave Ukraine some RPGs but it’s been pretty clear since the start of the invasion that Ukraine was far from militarized. You can count all the equipment they DIDN’T have based on all the weapons other nations have had to provide them since this war started. If NATO was planning some Russian invasion they sure as shit hadn’t done much of anything to prep Ukraine for that. Now however, some military hawks here and abroad think Ukraine should be allowed to join NATO immediately. And Finland and Sweden are in so how’s that working for Putin?

I don’t have an answer but I don’t blame the victim (Ukraine).

This is who raped Ukraine, User.





Nuland admitted that the West had set up biosafety labs when she claimed that Russia would use them to attack Ukraine, which is also an admission of their intended purpose.

You want to claim that that isn't militarization?

(Yesterday, 12:15 PM)username Wrote: Ukraine…so she was just asking to be raped based on the way she looked and the suggestive ways she was trying to get into NATO? Actually I don’t think Ukraine was ever going to get into NATO before Putin invaded. NATO was happy to string them along with that possibility “somewhere down the road and over the moon…” but it was also well known that that would give Putin severe diarrhea so nobody was in a rush over that. I gather Trump gave Ukraine some RPGs but it’s been pretty clear since the start of the invasion that Ukraine was far from militarized. You can count all the equipment they DIDN’T have based on all the weapons other nations have had to provide them since this war started. If NATO was planning some Russian invasion they sure as shit hadn’t done much of anything to prep Ukraine for that. Now however, some military hawks here and abroad think Ukraine should be allowed to join NATO immediately. And Finland and Sweden are in so how’s that working for Putin?

I don’t have an answer but I don’t blame the victim (Ukraine).

You also neglected to consider how long it took for the Russian military to overcome the Ukrainian military, and that it's initial focus was ending Ukraine's aggression against the Russian enclaves in the Donbas region. That was supposed to have been resolved in 2014, there was an agreement, Ukraine never abided by it. This is documented in the Western press. I posted an article in Newsweek about this somewhere in the Ukraine thread.

Russia has never stopped trying to negotiate an end to the conflict, The West has steadfastly refused, and the end result is that Ukraine is now largely uninhabitable given the harshness of the winters and the destruction of it's power generation and economy.

You also need to consider that Lindsey Graham stated on camera that Ukraine has about 15 trillion dollars worth of mineral wealth. The suckers will inevitably continue to believe that this debacle was about defending Ukraine's "democracy", but the obvious reality is that that was a huge crock of shit -- Which the Nuland video makes abundantly clear.

(Yesterday, 04:31 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(Yesterday, 12:15 PM)username Wrote: Ukraine…so she was just asking to be raped based on the way she looked and the suggestive ways she was trying to get into NATO? Actually I don’t think Ukraine was ever going to get into NATO before Putin invaded. NATO was happy to string them along with that possibility “somewhere down the road and over the moon…” but it was also well known that that would give Putin severe diarrhea so nobody was in a rush over that. I gather Trump gave Ukraine some RPGs but it’s been pretty clear since the start of the invasion that Ukraine was far from militarized. You can count all the equipment they DIDN’T have based on all the weapons other nations have had to provide them since this war started. If NATO was planning some Russian invasion they sure as shit hadn’t done much of anything to prep Ukraine for that. Now however, some military hawks here and abroad think Ukraine should be allowed to join NATO immediately. And Finland and Sweden are in so how’s that working for Putin?

I don’t have an answer but I don’t blame the victim (Ukraine).

You also neglected to consider how long it took for the Russian military to overcome the Ukrainian military, and that it's initial focus was ending Ukraine's aggression against the Russian enclaves in the Donbas region. That was supposed to have been resolved in 2014, there was an agreement, Ukraine never abided by it. This is documented in the Western press. I posted an article in Newsweek about this somewhere in the Ukraine thread.

Russia has never stopped trying to negotiate an end to the conflict, The West has steadfastly refused, and the end result is that Ukraine is now largely uninhabitable given the harshness of the winters and the destruction of it's power generation and economy. 

You also need to consider that Lindsey Graham stated on camera that Ukraine has about 15 trillion dollars worth of mineral wealth. The suckers will inevitably continue to believe that this debacle was about defending Ukraine's "democracy", but the obvious reality is that that was a huge crock of shit -- Which the Nuland video makes abundantly clear.

Putin’s stated goal was the “denazification” of Ukraine. The Donbass region is part of Ukraine. We’ve never recognized the “annexation” of Crimea either. Why on earth should Russia have sufficient cause to invade another country when it’s not their land? I’m sure Russia would love a negotiated settlement. Give us the land we want and the “special operation” will end. What a crock.
Re: being mineral rich, u think the U.S. is only helping Ukraine for that reason? Wouldn’t it also just make common sense that that’s also a reason Russia started all of this? You think Putin’s morals aren’t questionable? The guy that killed Navalny among many others?

(Yesterday, 04:59 PM)username Wrote:

(Yesterday, 04:31 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(Yesterday, 12:15 PM)username Wrote: Ukraine…so she was just asking to be raped based on the way she looked and the suggestive ways she was trying to get into NATO? Actually I don’t think Ukraine was ever going to get into NATO before Putin invaded. NATO was happy to string them along with that possibility “somewhere down the road and over the moon…” but it was also well known that that would give Putin severe diarrhea so nobody was in a rush over that. I gather Trump gave Ukraine some RPGs but it’s been pretty clear since the start of the invasion that Ukraine was far from militarized. You can count all the equipment they DIDN’T have based on all the weapons other nations have had to provide them since this war started. If NATO was planning some Russian invasion they sure as shit hadn’t done much of anything to prep Ukraine for that. Now however, some military hawks here and abroad think Ukraine should be allowed to join NATO immediately. And Finland and Sweden are in so how’s that working for Putin?

I don’t have an answer but I don’t blame the victim (Ukraine).

You also neglected to consider how long it took for the Russian military to overcome the Ukrainian military, and that it's initial focus was ending Ukraine's aggression against the Russian enclaves in the Donbas region. That was supposed to have been resolved in 2014, there was an agreement, Ukraine never abided by it. This is documented in the Western press. I posted an article in Newsweek about this somewhere in the Ukraine thread.

Russia has never stopped trying to negotiate an end to the conflict, The West has steadfastly refused, and the end result is that Ukraine is now largely uninhabitable given the harshness of the winters and the destruction of it's power generation and economy. 

You also need to consider that Lindsey Graham stated on camera that Ukraine has about 15 trillion dollars worth of mineral wealth. The suckers will inevitably continue to believe that this debacle was about defending Ukraine's "democracy", but the obvious reality is that that was a huge crock of shit -- Which the Nuland video makes abundantly clear.

Putin’s stated goal was the “denazification” of Ukraine. The Donbass region is part of Ukraine. We’ve never recognized the “annexation” of Crimea either. Why on earth should Russia have sufficient cause to invade another country when it’s not their land? I’m sure Russia would love a negotiated settlement. Give us the land we want and the “special operation” will end. What a crock.
Re: being mineral rich, u think the U.S. is only helping Ukraine for that reason? Wouldn’t it also just make common sense that that’s also a reason Russia started all of this? You think Putin’s morals aren’t questionable? The guy that killed Navalny among many others?

What is the principle that legitimized Ukrainian independence, bearing in mind that it had never been a sovereign state?

(Yesterday, 04:02 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(Yesterday, 12:15 PM)username Wrote: Ukraine…so she was just asking to be raped based on the way she looked and the suggestive ways she was trying to get into NATO? Actually I don’t think Ukraine was ever going to get into NATO before Putin invaded. NATO was happy to string them along with that possibility “somewhere down the road and over the moon…” but it was also well known that that would give Putin severe diarrhea so nobody was in a rush over that. I gather Trump gave Ukraine some RPGs but it’s been pretty clear since the start of the invasion that Ukraine was far from militarized. You can count all the equipment they DIDN’T have based on all the weapons other nations have had to provide them since this war started. If NATO was planning some Russian invasion they sure as shit hadn’t done much of anything to prep Ukraine for that. Now however, some military hawks here and abroad think Ukraine should be allowed to join NATO immediately. And Finland and Sweden are in so how’s that working for Putin?

I don’t have an answer but I don’t blame the victim (Ukraine).

This is who raped Ukraine, User.





Nuland admitted that the West had set up biosafety labs when she claimed that Russia would use them to attack Ukraine, which is also an admission of their intended purpose.

You want to claim that that isn't militarization?

I was not familiar with the Nuland admission and I’m not so interested in it that I’m willing or interested in researching it to death TBH. This article provides a summary of bio weapons (pathogenic testing labs as the U.S. seemed to prefer they be called) in Ukraine. I admit, we’re a bad, bad nation. Chemical weapons are a shit stain and no nation should be testing, storing or even CONSIDERING using them under any scenario (kinda like nuclear weapons). So convince me that Russia, China, North Korea, Syria, Iran etc are all biological weapon free and I totally support our immediate dismantling and destruction of any BW’s, of everything related to BW’s development and defensive measures we’re doing right now.

Editing my posts on my phone is a pain in the fucking ass. The last part is garbled but I don’t care. 

https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/aft...e-biolabs/

(Yesterday, 05:25 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(Yesterday, 04:59 PM)username Wrote:

(Yesterday, 04:31 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(Yesterday, 12:15 PM)username Wrote: Ukraine…so she was just asking to be raped based on the way she looked and the suggestive ways she was trying to get into NATO? Actually I don’t think Ukraine was ever going to get into NATO before Putin invaded. NATO was happy to string them along with that possibility “somewhere down the road and over the moon…” but it was also well known that that would give Putin severe diarrhea so nobody was in a rush over that. I gather Trump gave Ukraine some RPGs but it’s been pretty clear since the start of the invasion that Ukraine was far from militarized. You can count all the equipment they DIDN’T have based on all the weapons other nations have had to provide them since this war started. If NATO was planning some Russian invasion they sure as shit hadn’t done much of anything to prep Ukraine for that. Now however, some military hawks here and abroad think Ukraine should be allowed to join NATO immediately. And Finland and Sweden are in so how’s that working for Putin?

I don’t have an answer but I don’t blame the victim (Ukraine).

You also neglected to consider how long it took for the Russian military to overcome the Ukrainian military, and that it's initial focus was ending Ukraine's aggression against the Russian enclaves in the Donbas region. That was supposed to have been resolved in 2014, there was an agreement, Ukraine never abided by it. This is documented in the Western press. I posted an article in Newsweek about this somewhere in the Ukraine thread.

Russia has never stopped trying to negotiate an end to the conflict, The West has steadfastly refused, and the end result is that Ukraine is now largely uninhabitable given the harshness of the winters and the destruction of it's power generation and economy. 

You also need to consider that Lindsey Graham stated on camera that Ukraine has about 15 trillion dollars worth of mineral wealth. The suckers will inevitably continue to believe that this debacle was about defending Ukraine's "democracy", but the obvious reality is that that was a huge crock of shit -- Which the Nuland video makes abundantly clear.

Putin’s stated goal was the “denazification” of Ukraine. The Donbass region is part of Ukraine. We’ve never recognized the “annexation” of Crimea either. Why on earth should Russia have sufficient cause to invade another country when it’s not their land? I’m sure Russia would love a negotiated settlement. Give us the land we want and the “special operation” will end. What a crock.
Re: being mineral rich, u think the U.S. is only helping Ukraine for that reason? Wouldn’t it also just make common sense that that’s also a reason Russia started all of this? You think Putin’s morals aren’t questionable? The guy that killed Navalny among many others?

What is the principle that legitimized Ukrainian independence, bearing in mind that it had never been a sovereign state?

Pull up the oldest world map u can find. Is that what ur looking for? Many countries didn’t exist (or exist as they are today) until they did. The U.S. included. Ya’ want everyone to just give back the land and sovereignty they’ve fought and died for over the last centuries? What’s ur point?

(11 hours ago)username Wrote:

(Yesterday, 05:25 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(Yesterday, 04:59 PM)username Wrote:

(Yesterday, 04:31 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(Yesterday, 12:15 PM)username Wrote: Ukraine…so she was just asking to be raped based on the way she looked and the suggestive ways she was trying to get into NATO? Actually I don’t think Ukraine was ever going to get into NATO before Putin invaded. NATO was happy to string them along with that possibility “somewhere down the road and over the moon…” but it was also well known that that would give Putin severe diarrhea so nobody was in a rush over that. I gather Trump gave Ukraine some RPGs but it’s been pretty clear since the start of the invasion that Ukraine was far from militarized. You can count all the equipment they DIDN’T have based on all the weapons other nations have had to provide them since this war started. If NATO was planning some Russian invasion they sure as shit hadn’t done much of anything to prep Ukraine for that. Now however, some military hawks here and abroad think Ukraine should be allowed to join NATO immediately. And Finland and Sweden are in so how’s that working for Putin?

I don’t have an answer but I don’t blame the victim (Ukraine).

You also neglected to consider how long it took for the Russian military to overcome the Ukrainian military, and that it's initial focus was ending Ukraine's aggression against the Russian enclaves in the Donbas region. That was supposed to have been resolved in 2014, there was an agreement, Ukraine never abided by it. This is documented in the Western press. I posted an article in Newsweek about this somewhere in the Ukraine thread.

Russia has never stopped trying to negotiate an end to the conflict, The West has steadfastly refused, and the end result is that Ukraine is now largely uninhabitable given the harshness of the winters and the destruction of it's power generation and economy. 

You also need to consider that Lindsey Graham stated on camera that Ukraine has about 15 trillion dollars worth of mineral wealth. The suckers will inevitably continue to believe that this debacle was about defending Ukraine's "democracy", but the obvious reality is that that was a huge crock of shit -- Which the Nuland video makes abundantly clear.

Putin’s stated goal was the “denazification” of Ukraine. The Donbass region is part of Ukraine. We’ve never recognized the “annexation” of Crimea either. Why on earth should Russia have sufficient cause to invade another country when it’s not their land? I’m sure Russia would love a negotiated settlement. Give us the land we want and the “special operation” will end. What a crock.
Re: being mineral rich, u think the U.S. is only helping Ukraine for that reason? Wouldn’t it also just make common sense that that’s also a reason Russia started all of this? You think Putin’s morals aren’t questionable? The guy that killed Navalny among many others?

What is the principle that legitimized Ukrainian independence, bearing in mind that it had never been a sovereign state?

Pull up the oldest world map u can find. Is that what ur looking for? Many countries didn’t exist (or exist as they are today) until they did. The U.S. included. Ya’ want everyone to just give back the land and sovereignty they’ve fought and died for over the last centuries? What’s ur point?

I'll simplify it: what is the principle that legitimizes independence?

How are y'all feeling about tomorrow? Hopeful?

I am confidant that Jill Stein will be the first biological woman to be president.

Go Jill!

(10 hours ago)Duchess Wrote: How are y'all feeling about tomorrow? Hopeful?

Not “hopeful”. If Harris wins (my preferred candidate over Trump) I predict more election denialism and definitely protests if not riots. Might happen if Trump wins as well but I doubt to the same degree.

And our political system has been dysfunctional for a long time. Even if Harris wins I don’t see the vitriol or gridlock changing anytime soon. If Trump loses and the MAGA movement dies down with him and the GOP adopts a “make America Sane” again platform? That could be helpful. But I think extremism on both sides is going to keep shit crazy. Unfortunately. 

The results of this election could go either way IMO. I think Harris has good support but u can’t ignore the fact that there are men and women out there who absolutely don’t believe a woman can’t be POTUS. Doesn’t matter if she was perfect, having a va-china (my daughter gave me that term, lol) makes her a hard no for some. She’s got that fringe group to deal with on top of everything else.

(11 hours ago)rothschild Wrote:

(11 hours ago)username Wrote:

(Yesterday, 05:25 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(Yesterday, 04:59 PM)username Wrote:

(Yesterday, 04:31 PM)rothschild Wrote: You also neglected to consider how long it took for the Russian military to overcome the Ukrainian military, and that it's initial focus was ending Ukraine's aggression against the Russian enclaves in the Donbas region. That was supposed to have been resolved in 2014, there was an agreement, Ukraine never abided by it. This is documented in the Western press. I posted an article in Newsweek about this somewhere in the Ukraine thread.

Russia has never stopped trying to negotiate an end to the conflict, The West has steadfastly refused, and the end result is that Ukraine is now largely uninhabitable given the harshness of the winters and the destruction of it's power generation and economy. 

You also need to consider that Lindsey Graham stated on camera that Ukraine has about 15 trillion dollars worth of mineral wealth. The suckers will inevitably continue to believe that this debacle was about defending Ukraine's "democracy", but the obvious reality is that that was a huge crock of shit -- Which the Nuland video makes abundantly clear.

Putin’s stated goal was the “denazification” of Ukraine. The Donbass region is part of Ukraine. We’ve never recognized the “annexation” of Crimea either. Why on earth should Russia have sufficient cause to invade another country when it’s not their land? I’m sure Russia would love a negotiated settlement. Give us the land we want and the “special operation” will end. What a crock.
Re: being mineral rich, u think the U.S. is only helping Ukraine for that reason? Wouldn’t it also just make common sense that that’s also a reason Russia started all of this? You think Putin’s morals aren’t questionable? The guy that killed Navalny among many others?

What is the principle that legitimized Ukrainian independence, bearing in mind that it had never been a sovereign state?

Pull up the oldest world map u can find. Is that what ur looking for? Many countries didn’t exist (or exist as they are today) until they did. The U.S. included. Ya’ want everyone to just give back the land and sovereignty they’ve fought and died for over the last centuries? What’s ur point?

I'll simplify it: what is the principle that legitimizes independence?

Shut up. If you want to make a point, spit it out. I don’t have time, interest or inclination to answer ur stupid questions. This isn’t RC’s quiz show FFS.

(10 hours ago)Duchess Wrote: How are y'all feeling about tomorrow? Hopeful?

I'm hopeful Trump wins so you'll have something to do with your time.

(9 hours ago)username Wrote:

(11 hours ago)rothschild Wrote:

(11 hours ago)username Wrote:

(Yesterday, 05:25 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(Yesterday, 04:59 PM)username Wrote: Putin’s stated goal was the “denazification” of Ukraine. The Donbass region is part of Ukraine. We’ve never recognized the “annexation” of Crimea either. Why on earth should Russia have sufficient cause to invade another country when it’s not their land? I’m sure Russia would love a negotiated settlement. Give us the land we want and the “special operation” will end. What a crock.
Re: being mineral rich, u think the U.S. is only helping Ukraine for that reason? Wouldn’t it also just make common sense that that’s also a reason Russia started all of this? You think Putin’s morals aren’t questionable? The guy that killed Navalny among many others?

What is the principle that legitimized Ukrainian independence, bearing in mind that it had never been a sovereign state?

Pull up the oldest world map u can find. Is that what ur looking for? Many countries didn’t exist (or exist as they are today) until they did. The U.S. included. Ya’ want everyone to just give back the land and sovereignty they’ve fought and died for over the last centuries? What’s ur point?

I'll simplify it: what is the principle that legitimizes independence?

Shut up. If you want to make a point, spit it out. I don’t have time, interest or inclination to answer ur stupid questions. This isn’t RC’s quiz show FFS.

If you can't answer a simple question that's fundamental to independence, what males you think you're capable of forming an educated opinion with respect to who violated Ukraine's sovereignty?

(10 hours ago)Duchess Wrote: How are y'all feeling about tomorrow? Hopeful?

Yes, hopeful. Yet fearful we will get bigger, badder storming of the Capitol. Insurrection 2: Election Tantrum Orange Boogaloo. Coming to Washington DC January 6^th 2025!