WELL, SHOOT... JUST SHOOT

[Duchess]

It's out of fuckin' control. Almost weekly there is another story regarding someone who has professed to be so fearful they have shot someone dead.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Its unfortunate that there is no practical workable way to make sure everyone with a weapon is also trained and educated on when it is and is not ok to use it. This is one of the points of the laws that need to change, The lawmakers need to put something intelligent in the law such that if you carry a weapon into and initiate a confrontation then you should be responsible for it.
In this case it looks like the dude with the gun took it outside and confronted an old guy that was just wandering around, instead of calling the police.
OK, so the GF was scared because there had been Someone around last week, So what? If the old guy was outside wandering around call the cops.

[ZEROSPHERES]

Game controller mistaken for gun?


Christopher Roupe, 17 - shot to death by Georgia cop. RIP.

EUHARLEE, Ga. –

“The eyewitnesses on the scene clearly state that he had a Wii controller in his hand.

This may be what the cop saw.

[Cynical Ninja]

Its unfortunate that there is no practical workable way to make sure everyone with a weapon is also trained and educated on when it is and is not ok to use it. This is one of the points of the laws that need to change, The lawmakers need to put something intelligent in the law such that if you carry a weapon into and initiate a confrontation then you should be responsible for it.
In this case it looks like the dude with the gun took it outside and confronted an old guy that was just wandering around, instead of calling the police.
OK, so the GF was scared because there had been Someone around last week, So what? If the old guy was outside wandering around call the cops.

Exactly, if you are concerned or worried about someones behaviour call the police, they are going to be more qualified due to their training and experience to handle the situation anyway.

If you ask yourself the question “should I get out my gun and do something?” The answer in the vast majority of cases is going to be “no”.

[Cynical Ninja]

Game controller mistaken for gun?


Christopher Roupe, 17 - shot to death by Georgia cop. RIP.

EUHARLEE, Ga. –

“The eyewitnesses on the scene clearly state that he had a Wii controller in his hand.

This may be what the cop saw.

Do cops over there not say “freeze! Drop it!” Anymore like T J Hooker?

Do you not even get one chance to drop whatever you are holding and put your hands up?

Does it ever have to be immediate execution?

[ZEROSPHERES]

Do cops over there not say “freeze! Drop it!” Anymore like T J Hooker?

Do you not even get one chance to drop whatever you are holding and put your hands up?

Does it ever have to be immediate execution?

Most cops just want to make it safely thru their shift and get back home to their families who are worried about the dangers of their job. Others just want to get back to the donut shop. I do see a difference in the way police affect an arrest in states where the offender could be carrying a gun as opposed to states that outlaw it. In this case I figure the female cop serving on a male suspect who may have a gun was enough to raise the hinkey factor. It probably took little provocation for her to draw and shoot.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

I can see it happening that way, I can also see a poorly prepared officer suddenly figuring out she had done something stupid and put her self in a very bad position and panicked.
I like cops, but they are people and some of them make mistakes, like this one.
Minimum she should be off the job, MHO based on what I read

[HairOfTheDog]

No more livin', Large...

A Winter Haven, Florida homeowner shot and killed an intruder who broke into his family's home Monday morning, police said.

Homeowner Luis A. Pena, 54, first fired a warning shot to deter the burglar, but the man continued to work his way through the back door of the home on Lake Marianna Drive.


The intruder — identified as 40-year-old Mitchell G. Large (pictured above) — charged at Pena, who shot the man in the torso at least once, police said.

Police received the call about the burglary in the 4200 block of Lake Marianna Drive around 6:50 a.m. "When officers arrived, the burglary suspect was deceased inside the home," police said.

Pena told officers his family heard a sound coming from their back door. When he went to investigate, he saw a man trying to open the French doors leading off his back porch.

"The resident retrieved a firearm and fired a shot in an attempt to scare the reported intruder off," officers said. "However, the intruder continued into the residence, undeterred by the shot."

Pena's family also armed themselves with guns to ward off the intruder, police said. It is unclear whether Pena's family also fired their guns, but police did say more than one shot was fired at the burglar.

There were four people in the house at the time of the burglary.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2014...owner-pena
---------------------------------------------------------------------

If it doesn't turn out that the Penas knew Large and their story checks out, I think it's a good thing for the Pena family that they were armed and shot the intruder.

A stranger forcing his way into your home despite a warning shot would put most rational people in reasonable fear for their lives, IMO.

Large had arrests for assault and domestic violence on his criminal record. Turns out, he was unarmed when he was killed.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Nice shooting

[Duchess]

Is anyone ever astounded by the number of people who bring about their own death?

[HairOfTheDog]

Follow up to the second-degree murder case against Theodore Wafer for the shooting death of Renisha McBride (starting on post 27).

Looks like Wafer's attorney is going for the predictable and popular defense strategy -- attack and blame the victim.

George Zimmerman's attorneys tried to get some of the same (irrelevant, IMO) kinds of posts/pics by Trayvon Martin entered as evidence in Zimmerman's trial. The judge didn't allow them in his case and I'm glad to see that Judge Carpenter isn't allowing them in Renisha's case either (so far).

Snip:
In court filings and arguments, Wafer's attorneys have clearly signaled their strategy: He lives alone in a neighborhood on the edge of Detroit and was afraid of what he was hearing at about 4:30 a.m.

Defense attorney Cheryl Carpenter has tried to get the judge to allow the defense to use McBride's text messages, which carry a slang reference to marijuana, and the provocative photos, but the judge won't budge. Separately, Judge Hathaway agreed to approve subpoenas to get access to social media sites that the victim may have used.

"Our defense is blown to pieces if you don't allow me to argue to the jury that she could have been up to no good. ... She could have been running from somebody," Carpenter said. Carpenter acknowledged that questioning McBride's reputation "leaves a bad taste" but "we have to do this."

Story: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/no-selfies-o...-at-trial/

[HairOfTheDog]

UPDATE:
Been waiting for word from the DA in Santa Rosa regarding the shooting death of Andy Lopez for months.

I'm disappointed that they've decided not to charge Officer Gelhaus with anything and hope it doesn't ignite even more discourse in Santa Rosa.

Snip:
Prosecutors said Monday they will not file criminal charges against a Northern California sheriff's deputy who shot and killed a 13-year-old boy carrying a pellet gun he mistook for an assault rifle.

The parents of Andy Lopez decried the decision, saying "it is impossible" to accept and they felt as though their son "had been killed again."

Full story: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/no-charges-a...ellet-gun/

ORIGINAL RECAP:

Just finished reading the latest on the killing of 13 year-old Andy Lopez (pictured above); he was shot to death late last month by an on-duty deputy and gun trainer who mistook the boy's toy rifle for a real AK47.

Sad story - like the police-killing of unarmed accident victim Jonathan Ferrell, covered in the OP.

In Ferrell's case, the patrol car had a dash cam which has aided in the investigation and helped the PD ascertain swiftly that manslaughter charges should be filed against the officer/shooter who killed Ferrell.

In Lopez's case, the investigation is being based on multiple 3^rd party witness accounts (thank god there were witnesses around), the account of the deputy/shooter (Gelhaus), and the account of the rookie who was being trained by Gelhaus that day,

ANDY LOPEZ CASE - What we know now:
- Police approached Lopez from behind because they mistakenly viewed his toy rifle as a real one.
-The toy was one shared by the neighborhood boys; there was no orange tip identifying it as a replica (ether because the replica-type didn't require it or it had been removed). Lopez also had a toy handgun with him - orange tip was in tact on it.
-Lopez began to turn around without dropping the toy.
-Gelhaus claims he doesn't remember if he identified himself as "police" when he told the boy to drop the weapon and before he shot at him 8 times - in fear for his life. (This bothers me - it should be standard procedure to identify themselves as PD; Gelhaus was not facing an immediate threat when he approached the boy from behind and he was training a rookie, FFS.)
-7 of the bullets hit Lopez; witnesses say Gelhaus continued to shoot after the boy was already on the ground.

[Maggot]

How things have changed, 35 yrs ago we were bringing our guns to school in our PU trucks and then going hunting at the end of the day. Today a kid cannot even run around with a squirt gun in his hand. Is the sun beaming stupidity down on the earth? Is morality dead?

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Its the sun

[Duchess]

35 yrs ago we were bringing our guns to school in our PU trucks and then going hunting at the end of the day.

I can remember those days. I grew up in a place where almost every pickup you saw had a gun rack and usually a gun in it. It was common.

As an aside, the last time I went back home I took a drive around and the border crossing that was once a beautiful, scenic place was now heavily fenced and there were house sized ex-ray type contraptions inside it. It all looked futuristic and imposing. It sucked!

[HairOfTheDog]

JURY SELECTION UNDERWAY -- MURDER OF RENISHA MCBRIDE



DETROIT - Theodore Wafer, 55, is charged with second-degree murder, manslaughter and a gun charge in the killing of unarmed 19-year-old Renisha McBride on his Dearborn Heights porch in November.

Wafer's attorney says he shot McBride because he feared for his safety and his actions were legally justifiable.

But prosecutors say Wafer could have remained in his locked home and called 911. They say opening the door and shooting McBride in the face didn't amount to self-defense.

McBride crashed into a parked car about three-and-a-half hours before she showed up at Wafer's door. A toxicology report showed she was drunk at the time of the crash.

The Detroit Free Press reports Judge Dana Hathaway ruled last month that a cell phone photograph of the victim, along with her text messages, would be allowed to be shown to jurors (HOTD: I think these are irrelevant as Wafer had no idea who was behind the door and wish the judge had excluded them, like the judge in the Zimmeran trial did). The defense has portrayed McBride as a marijuana dealer with a troubled history.

Attorney Gerald Thurswell, who represents McBride's family, told the Free Press the defense wants to put the victim on trial. He said Friday that the woman's family had hoped Wafer "would have admitted responsibility" for his role in the fatal shooting.

Ref: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trial-to-sta...-on-porch/

[HairOfTheDog]

Renisha McBride Murder Trial
Wafer claims self-defense, but LE witnesses testify that he initially claimed the gun went off by accident

So far in the trial, the jury's heard the details of the night in question and there's not much that isn't covered in this thread already.

One thing that's new, and something that's key to his defense, is Wafer's claim that he couldn't find his cell phone to call 911 when someone was banging on his door at 4 a.m.

So, according to Wafer, he grabbed his gun instead. And, when he opened the door, he thought he saw another person to the side of the house when he shot Renisha. Then, he found that he had his cell phone in his back pocket and called 911.

He told the 911 operator that he shot someone and then hung up. The 911 dispatcher called him back and Wafer told him that it was an accident and he didn't know there was a round in the gun. He also told police at the scene that it was an accident. There could be a negligent homicide associated with such an accidental shooting though.

So, what Wafer's claiming now, through his defense attorney, is that he was scared shitless, in fear for his life, and he shot the unarmed teen in self-defense. An intentional and justified shooting. What a crock, IMO.

Ref:
http://www.wxyz.com/news/theodore-wafer-...was-loaded

[HairOfTheDog]

Theodore Wafer took the stand today in his trial for the murder of Renisha McBride

That's unusual, but I don't think he had much to lose.



Wafer first told police that it was an accident and he didn't realize his gun was loaded. He's now saying that he was in reaonsable fear for his life and shot the unarmed teen in self defense.

He told the court today that when he opened the door after hearing someone banging and grabbing his gun, the person (Renisha) moved really fast. He felt threatened and that's when he shot her in the face.

When asked why he opened the door at all and didn't call 911, he asserted that he couldn't find his phone and he didn't want to cower inside and feel like a victim.

I think Wafer is a liar. He should at least be convicted of manslaughter, IMO.

Story: http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/08/04/t...ting-case/

[HairOfTheDog]

JURY IN DELIBERATIONS -- RENISHA MCBRIDE MURDER TRIAL

POSSIBLE VERDICTS
Theodore Wafer, an airport maintenance worker who lives alone, is charged with second-degree murder and manslaughter. The jury could convict him of the lesser charge of involuntary manslaughter or clear Wafer of all charges if it believes had a "reasonable and honest" belief that his life was at risk, even if he was wrong.

PROSECUTION'S CLOSING
"She was a young girl looking for help," prosecutor Patrick Muscat told jurors. "What he did had to be immediately necessary and it wasn't. It was reckless. It was negligent. I don't know how to describe it. It was horrific."

DEFENSE CLOSING
"He armed himself. He was getting attacked," defense attorney Cheryl Carpenter said in her closing argument. "Put yourselves in his shoes at 4:30 in the morning."

Earlier this week, Wafer testified that he was terrified by the pounding on his house. He had been sleeping in a recliner and said he couldn't immediately find his phone to call police.

In her closing remarks,defense attorney Carpenter said race isn't a factor for the jury. She said Wafer was just a homeowner who was aware of crime in a neighborhood that borders Detroit and wanted to protect himself. "In the heat of the moment our instincts are to survive," she said. "He did not know it was a 19-year-old who got in a car crash at 1 a.m. What he knew was someone was trying to get in. It's not for a good reason - it's to hurt me."

Source:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/renisha-mcbr...igan-jury/

-------------------------------------------------------
Wafer made no effort to determine who was banging on his door before deciding to open it and fire point blank in the face.

I understand freaking out a little at continuous banging at 4:30 in the morning. But, he knew the person wasn't in his house and he didn't even ask who it was or say "look, I called the police" or anything like that.

It's not justified to shoot someone because you're afraid and armed; not when you have other options and there is no imminent life threat. It was someone knocking hard on the door, FFS. But, just like the Zimmerman case in Florida, under Michigan's self defense laws, the jury considers what was in the defendant's mind rather than what's reasonable by common standards under the circumstances. I really dislike such laws from a legal and justice perspective. In this case, Wafer changed his story to fit the law and I hope that is transparent to the jury.

Anyway, I think second degree is appropriate here and hope the jury does too. But, involuntary manslaughter would be much better than another acquittal or hung jury.

[Duchess]

the jury considers what was in the defendant's mind

This seems so inappropriate. The jury only knows because they were told. There is no evidence, no science. There is an end result, in this case a dead woman. Ugh. I don't understand the law a lot. I don't understand a lot, a lot.