ANOTHER SCHOOL/PUBLIC SHOOTING

[ramseycat]

We don't have Piggly Wiggly. He must be at the Publix.

You know what else they have here? Walmart Supermarkets. It's just a gigantic grocery store. None of the other departments regular Wally's has.

[HairOfTheDog]

ROSWELL, NEW MEXICO, SCHOOL SHOOTER TRANSFERRED TO PSYCH HOSPITAL


^12 year-old Mason Campbell, shooter


^13 year-old Kendal Sanders, shooting victim - stable condition


^ John Masterson, the social studies teacher being hailed a hero for talking the shooter down

The 11 year-old boy who was shot is still reportedly in critical condition.

State Police Chief Pete Kassetas said Wednesday that it appeared both victims were chosen randomly (though the boy reportedly believed he was the target, according to his nurse).

Kassetas said the attack was planned in advance and the boy got the sawed-off shotgun from his family's home and had three rounds of ammunition.

The shooting lasted 10 seconds and happened in front of about 500 students.

Campbell was transferred to a psychiatric hospital in Albuquerque, following a court hearing Tuesday.

Albuquerque attorney Jason Bowles, who is related to Campbell, said:
"Our family, right now, is prayerful and thinking of the kids that were hurt and their families and praying that God will oversee this situation. Our thoughts and prayers are for those kids that were hurt".

Refs:
http://www.abqjournal.com/336371/abqnews...chool.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...mates.html

[Cynical Ninja]

Yeah I'm sure gawd will take care of everything.

[Cynical Ninja]

Who now works in the local Piggly Wiggly snatching errant shopping carts and bags on Sundays.

You have grocery stores called Piggly Wiggly?

Lol.

I hope the staff are made to wear piggy hats.

[Duchess]

You have grocery stores called Piggly Wiggly?

Down south. I don't laugh too loud though because I have one here called Food Lion.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

I'm curious at to how the 12 year-old got a hold of a sawed-off shotgun. Parents? Bought it illegally? Straw purchaser? Stole it?

No time to research state specific laws right now, but did read a quick blurb indicating that sawed-off shotguns are legal depending on barrel size and there are some restrictions and ambiguities regarding their legal ownership in various states.

If anyone has quick access to the caveats (in and/or out of New Mexico) and can post them, much appreciated. Otherwise, I'll look around later tonight.

Barrel Length is set by the BATF, Federal Authority,, it is 18 inches measured from the bolt face to the end of the barrel. Some states may also have laws on the books for barrel length.
With the barrel cut to 18' and the stock cut down to a pistol grip as stated in the article that gun overall would be just over 2 feet. Easy enough to hide.

[F.U.]

There is also a minimum legal overall length for a non NFA [national firearms act] firearm. The minimum OAL [Over all length] , without filing the NFA paperwork , is 26 inches. However, If that shotgun was originally a full length shotgun and if the owner filed the SBS [short barreled shotgun] NFA paperwork with the ATF, paid the $200.00 tax and was approved by the ATF all those lengths go right out the window. If that paperwork and tax was taken care of that shotgun could have ben as short as the owner wanted.

Then there is another option. It is called a AOW [any other weapon] category. If a firearm was never assembled as a long gun it can legally be assembled into a shotgun/handgun. That consists of filing the AOW paperwork with the ATF, paying a $200.00 tax and building the gun. In fact there is a company that produces and sells what the call a super shorty shotgun. The OAL on that is just 16.5 inches, and it is a 12 gauge pump action shotgun.

There are many different rules and regs that would allow a person to own a 12 gauge pump shotgun that they could easily hide under a windbreaker/light shirt.


Link to the super shorty . http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php


Here is a link to a post an another forum that explaines the NFA process much better than I can. http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=489

[ramseycat]

I don't know much about guns. Does sawing off a shot fun make it more dangerous?

[F.U.]

Sawing down the barrel of a shotgun does a couple things.

1, it eliminates the choke of the barrel. There are several different classes of chokes, extra full, full, mod, Imp, etc. A chokes purpose is to restrict the shot as it leaves the barrel, what that does is, the tighter the choke the tighter the pattern will be. Extra tights are used for longer shots. Many turkey hunters and waterfowl hunters use the tightest choke they can find. So, by cutting down a barrel and removing the choke will cause the patter to expand much farther [splatter]. So it is almost useless unless used for close quarters, or shooting slugs.

2, the shorter barrel will make it much handier/easier to be used in a home [close quarters]. That is why some people that use a shotgun for home protection will put the shortest barrel legally allowed and replace the butstock with a pistol grip.

So short answer Ramsey is No, it does not make the firearm more dangerous. It just changes the use of the firearm from a hunting gun to a home defense type weapon.

[HairOfTheDog]

Thanks Six and F.U.

Confusing regs on that one.

I still can't tell from the news on the story if the gun used would be one that the kid's parents might have legally owned. I'm wondering if there's a possibility that his parents could face illegal arms possession charges.

I guess it depends on whether the barrel was at least 18 inches or they filed the necessary paperwork and taxes if it the barrel was shorter than that, yet the gun still measured at least 26 inches in total. I'm trying to envision what the NM Police Chief described as a semi-automatic "20 gauge shotgun with the wood sawed off".

Maybe it looked something like this initially?

[F.U.]

Here are a couple pics of a Mossberg 500 I built [I built this one from extra parts I had laying around in the parts bin] . It has a OAL of 29 inches [when the stock is folded like in the pic] and a barrel length of 18 ¹⁄₂ inches. It holds 5 rounds of 12 gauge 00 buck in the gun and another 6 rounds on its side. If you were to buy this gun on the street it would cost anywhere from $250.00 - $350.00. This one sits along side my bed.
As you can see this shotgun would have no problem being concealed under a coat.






And here is a 12 gauge double barrel shotgun that would be registered as a SBS. It would have a OAL of 19 inches. I have not built this one yet because I have not filed the paperwork nor paid the $200 tax . This pic is a photoshop version of what I want to build.

[HairOfTheDog]

Those pics don't really match up to the gun described in the story.

If the 20 gauge semi that I posted in post 68 is similar to the one used in the school shooting, before the wood on the barrel portion was sawed off all or part of the way, I guess that's about as good a picture as possible right now - unless authorities release the actual photo or a sample. Seems the gun would be pretty short.

The latest story says the boy smuggled the gun into school, which I see would be much easier with a sawed-off then a full length shotgun.

[F.U.]

Mine is a pump with folding stock and plastic forarm. The one he used sounds like a old bird gun that had few mods done to it. I was writing my post as you made yours , with the pic. I was just trying to show how short a shotgun can be made.

The same thing that I did with my pump can be done to that shotgun you posted though.

[F.U.]

Here is a pic of a sawed off semi auto shotgun. This one is a browning, and the one you posted reminds me of a beretta , but they are very similar guns.





And here is another. as you can see it wouldn't be hard to sneak these into a school.

[HairOfTheDog]

2 WOMEN SHOT AND KILLED IN INDIANA GROCERY STORE


Shawn Walter Bair, 22 - shooter; killed by police at the scene

Elkhart police received a call about a shooter at Martin's Super Market about 10 p.m. Wednesday, Indiana State Police Sgt. Trent Smith said at a news conference early Thursday. Elkhart is in far northern Indiana, just south of the Michigan border, and about 15 miles east of South Bend.

The gunman used a semi-automatic handgun to shoot and kill a woman, then walked to another aisle and shot and killed another woman, Smith said. One victim Krystle Dikes, worked at the store. The other (not identified) was a shopper who appeared to be in her 40s, he said. They were found about 12 aisles apart.


RIP Krystle Dikes, 20 - murder victim

Two police officers, who were on a routine call nearby, were able to quickly respond to the scene, Smith said.

The shooter was pointing his gun at a third person when the officers found him in a store aisle, Smith said. Elkhart police then shot and killed the gunman, who Smith said lived in the area and was in his early 20s. A large knife was also found near the man's body.

The identities of the women and gunman were not released but Smith said there was no indication that the shooter knew the victims. "At this time, it appears that it's just random," he said. He did not elaborate.

Smith also said that there was "no doubt" that the officers' quick response saved lives. The Indiana State Police will investigate because the Elkhart Police Department was involved in the shooting, Smith said.

"We do have a lot of things to look at as far as video surveillance," Smith said, noting that state and city police were also interviewing witnesses.

A couple of Bair's many Facebook rants:


Refs:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national...-1.1581555
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/gunman-shot-...permarket/

[SIXFOOTERsez]

I didn't think an auto would make a good SBS due to the proximity of the gas port to the end of the barrel.
Guess it does. Mine is a Mossberg 500 street sweeper like yours but with all the extra furniture

[F.U.]

Correct Six. semi autos dont work the greatest because of that. If you cut one down you have to run magnum rounds all the time or they tend to jam.

[Cynical Ninja]

You are talking about the technical aspects of firearms in a thread entitled “The Latest School Shooting”?

Really?

You may as well go the whole hog and walk up to the family of one of the victims of a shooting and go “see ma`am? this is the gun that killed your boy! Take a hold of it, feel the weight. Now let me enlighten you on the technical aspects of the weapon that turned your sons head into a crushed water melon!”

Jesus.

[Duchess]

You are talking about the technical aspects of firearms in a thread entitled “The Latest School Shooting”?

Really?

Yes. There were questions about the particular weapon used in the latest shooting. Some of us wanted to see what it was or a reasonable simile.

[Cynical Ninja]

Who cares about exactly what gun it was?

I'm far more concerned about the dead children than “was the shooter using an X25.2 under and over or an X25.2 side by side?”

Who gives a shit? Innocent children are dead!