ANOTHER SCHOOL/PUBLIC SHOOTING

[Duchess]

Without knowing nothing more than anyone else knows I feel strongly that the mother knew. If she shared a home with them I don't know how she couldn't have known. They were making pipe bombs in the garage and creating a great deal of noise according to neighbors.

[HairOfTheDog]

Planned Parenthood Mass Shooter -- Update

Robert Lewis Dear told the court today: "I am guilty there will be no trial. I am a warrior for the babies."

When lawyers spoke about a listing of victims in the incident, Dear blurted out, "Could you add the babies that were supposed to be aborted that day? Could you add that to the list?"

He also reportedly told officers, "no more baby parts" when he was arrested after the shootings on November 7^th.

In addition, LE has revealed that he also stopped and asked someone for directions to the Planned Parenthood facility in Colorado Springs just before the shootings.

It looks increasingly clear that Dear killed three people and wounded several others to make an anti-abortion political statement.

He's being represented by the attorney who defended James Holmes, Daniel King. King wants to have his client evaluated for competency.

179 felony charges were filed against Dear today. Whether or not the death penalty will be pursued will be determined later.

Refs:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/planned-pare...am-guilty/
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/us/colorad...-shooting/

[BigMark]

The right to bear arms is what makes America free, once the citizens don't have the (fire) power to resist tyranny all is lost. We are seeking a balance to defend this freedom. Most killers circumvent existing laws, we don't need more laws, we need more enforcement of the existing ones. When 90% of murders are solved then let's worry about Chong selling bongs.

The manpower we expend enforcing ridiculous laws is CRIMINAL in it's own right.

[F.U.]

we don't need more laws, we need more enforcement of the existing ones.

I've ben saying that for years !

[Adub]

The right to bear arms is what makes America free, once the citizens don't have the (fire) power to resist tyranny all is lost.

TyrannY? ReallY?

[HairOfTheDog]

Stricter enforcement of existing gun laws/regulations is definitely needed to reduce gun violence overall, I agree.

The problem of general gun violence, and all violence, is multi-faceted though, in my opinion. Laws and enforcement of laws are two important factors in effectively addressing the problem, but there are several other factors that contribute to the problem as well. We've had a lot of exchanges to that effect in the GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY? thread, so I won't go into that here.

When it comes to mass public shooters, specifically, I don't think stricter enforcement of existing gun laws/regulations would have much of an impact. And, the "criminals don't respect laws anyway" argument is not really applicable to mass public shooters.

-Most of the shooters covered in this thread have no record of criminal activity prior to planning and carrying out their mass attacks.

-Many were juveniles or young adults who used guns legally purchased and owned by their family members.

-Others purchased their guns legally because they passed their background checks. Those who had a history of mental illness were not ineligible to purchase guns because they had not been declared mentally ill by a court and, thus, there was no record of their mental illness in the NICS database.

-The San Bernadino terrorists had no criminal records and weren't on the terror watch list. And, even if they had been on the terror watch list, the existing laws would not have prevented them from legally purchasing guns (they did however illegally possess modified semi-automatic rifles and high capacity magazines in California, which may have enabled them to wound/kill more people in a short amount of time).

Existing laws/regulations need to be tightened-up or expanded consistently across the states in order to effectively reduce all types of gun crimes, AND those laws/regulations need to be enforced strictly and consistently.

[Duchess]

even if they had been on the terror watch list, the existing laws would not have prevented them from legally purchasing guns

Isn't that incredible! That is just mind blowing to me. How does that happen? It should be changed now, right now. How could any sane person argue against that?

[HairOfTheDog]

even if they had been on the terror watch list, the existing laws would not have prevented them from legally purchasing guns

Isn't that incredible! That is just mind blowing to me. How does that happen? It should be changed now, right now. How could any sane person argue against that?

It is hard to believe. A suspected terrorist can be prohibited from boarding a plane, but he or she is not prohibited from buying guns.

I understand why the ACLU objects to restricting Second Amendment rights for those on the watch list though. They always object to people being denied their legal rights if those people haven't broken any laws; it's viewed as discrimination in their eyes.

The NRA objects based on what amounts to the old "slippery slope" fear, and, in my opinion, based on power/money motivators too. That's what they do.

I disagree with the ACLU and the NRA. I support felons having their Second Amendment rights restricted, even though they've served their time. They're a known risk to public safety. And, I support those with restraining orders against them having their Second Amendment rights restricted. They're believed to pose a risk to a specific individual(s). Along the same lines, I think individuals suspected of terrorist affiliation should be legally prohibited from buying guns as well.

[blueberryhill]

even if they had been on the terror watch list, the existing laws would not have prevented them from legally purchasing guns

Isn't that incredible! That is just mind blowing to me. How does that happen? It should be changed now, right now. How could any sane person argue against that?

Oh Duchess, you are so funny! Therein lies our problem, "how could any sane person argue against that?" We have a shortage of sane people it would seem, thus, our country remains clueless (except for a few sane ones like me) re gun laws. Like I keep preaching, we have to get rid of the dumb and dumber politicians who keep the NRA alive and well spewing their propaganda.. Arming teachers, students, asking citizens to carry firearms just in case......My gosh, sanity went out the window sometime ago.

[Midwest Spy]

even if they had been on the terror watch list, the existing laws would not have prevented them from legally purchasing guns

Isn't that incredible! That is just mind blowing to me. How does that happen? It should be changed now, right now. How could any sane person argue against that?

Oh Duchess, you are so funny! Therein lies our problem, "how could any sane person argue against that?" We have a shortage of sane people it would seem, thus, our country remains clueless (except for a few sane ones like me) re gun laws. Like I keep preaching, we have to get rid of the dumb and dumber politicians who keep the NRA alive and well spewing their propaganda.. Arming teachers, students, asking citizens to carry firearms just in case......My gosh, sanity went out the window sometime ago.

But in reality BBH, the gun epidemic in this country will never go away.

Ever.

So, doesn't it make sense to be armed to the teeth just in case you or a loved one encounter a bad guy with a gun?

[Maggot]

Ted Kennedy was on the no fly list. but he croaked. Quite a few people unrelated to any terror ties are on the list. Over 1,000,000 people are on the list. David Nelson from Ozzie and Harriet was on it, Cat Stevens is on it.
A quick wikpedia list.............

In November 2002 Salon reported that the No-Fly program seemed "to be netting mostly priests, elderly nuns, Green Party campaign operatives, left-wing journalists, right-wing activists and people affiliated with Arab or Arab-American groups." Art dealer Doug Stuber, who ran Ralph Nader’s Green Party presidential campaign in North Carolina in 2000, was prevented from flying to Europe on business in October 2002. He was repeatedly pulled out of line, held for questioning until his flight left, then told falsely he could take a later flight or depart from a different airport. Barbara Olshansky, then Assistant Legal Director for the Center for Constitutional Rights, noted that she and several of her colleagues received special attention on numerous occasions. On at least one occasion, she was ordered to pull her trousers down in view of other passengers

No fly is the same list that's used for the terror watch list also.........

If the folks that wanted to protect Americans looked at the refugee lists and used verified sources for terror based lists then it would be OK.


Be careful what you wish for because you may be on the list also. Just sayin. Knee jerk politics never work out well.

[HairOfTheDog]

That's a good point, Maggot.

I think there would probably need to be a classification within the watch list that signifies those with known violent threats, communications, or actions. That subset would be restricted from guns. People who simply express understanding or agreement with controversial ideologies probably shouldn't.

I disagree with you that refugees should be the sole focus though. The biggest threat of violent terrorism to the U.S. (and most other countries) lies within. Refugees aren't committing most of the mass attacks in this country; natural born U.S. citizens are.

[Maggot]

From the beloved Huffington post

That bill, written by Republican Rep. Peter King of New York, would close a "loophole" that allows people on the terrorist watch list to buy a gun. Many Republicans and outside groups contend the bill would deny due process rights to people placed on the terrorist watch list. But Democrats clearly see election-year advantages to making Republicans block a vote.

In a signal of just how committed Democrats are to using the gun issue in 2016, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee started running radio ads on Thursday blaming certain vulnerable Republicans for their refusal to take up the terrorist watch list gun legislation, using previous question votes with the gun legislation attached to make a tenuous attack. The vote on Thursday on the privileged resolution may firm up that criticism.


link

It is Political not for protecting Americans.

[HairOfTheDog]

^ Some people support it for political purposes only; I don't doubt that. But, that's not why I support it.

[Maggot]

The issue will be knee jerked across the field. But will it score?

[HairOfTheDog]

San Bernadino Terror Attack Arrest



The former neighbor and good friend of Syed Farook, ^ Enrique Marquez, was arrested and charged with straw purchasing, material support for terrorism, and entering a sham marriage (he married Farook's sister-in-law, a Russian woman, so that she could get into the U.S.).

He reportedly waived his Miranda rights and was cooperating with authorities after they raided his family's home and tracked him down shortly after the San Bernadino attack. Marquez had checked himself into a psych facility immediately after the attack was carried out.

Marquez certainly could have been charged earlier, but authorities likely didn't want him to clam up and lawyer-up before they got all that they could from him.

According to an affidavit, Marquez told investigators he and Farook made plans to attack the library or cafeteria at Riverside Community College in California in late 2011.

He and Farook also planned to attack a state highway during rush hour with pipe bombs and shoot at law enforcement and emergency crews as they arrived.

Marquez is the person who purchased the AR-15 rifles for Farook a few years back. Farook was legally eligible to buy the rifles himself, but he had already purchased firearms and was fearful that he'd be questioned if he purchased more, so he implored Marquez to buy them on his behalf.

Marquez claims he was unaware that Farook and his wife Malik were planning the San Bernadino attack.

Marquez and Farook had known each other since they were teens. Farook reportedly introduced Marquez to Islam and radicalism and Marquez converted in 2007.

Story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/san-...d4bcc0b0bd

[HairOfTheDog]

OKLAHOMA SHOOTING SPREE


Jeremy Hardy (^ pictured in his mug shot) has been charged with first-degree murder after allegedly firing his gun along an Oklahoma highway in a 50-mile shooting spree last Wednesday.

His blood alcohol level was .16, twice the legal limit.

Hardy, 36, fired at several cars from his speeding pickup truck.

He shot and killed Jeffrey 'Kent' Powell, 45, and 10 miles later fatally shot 63-year-old Billie West (female). RIP.

Police do not believe Hardy knew any of his victims.

Hardy has been charged with two counts of first degree murder and driving under the influence. He is being held without bond.

Story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z3v4YISLry

[HairOfTheDog]

AMBUSH IN PHILLY



A gunman who fired 13 shots at a Philadelphia police officer as he sat in his marked cruiser at an intersection pledged allegiance to ISIS after the attack.

The man, who has not been named, opened fire at Officer Jesse Hartnett as he sat in his car late Thursday. Hartnett, who was wearing a bullet vest, returned fire and sustained three gunshot wounds to his left arm.

At a press conference today it was revealed the gunman, who has a criminal record, used a police handgun reported stolen in 2013.

The officer was in his cruiser in West Philadelphia when the shooter approached from the sidewalk and began firing, eventually shooting through the driver's-side window as he got closer.

'I'm bleeding heavily!' Hartnett, a veteran of five years on the force, shouted into his police radio when he called in to report shots fired.

Hartnett underwent surgery early Friday at Presbyterian Hospital and was expected to make a full recovery. Good news.

There was no immediate word on the suspect's condition. Officer Christine O'Brien said the man was stuck at least once in the buttock.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z3wgA5QQgL

[HairOfTheDog]

The piece of shit who shot and wounded Officer Hartnett with a stolen gun has been identified by Philadelphia PD.



Commissioner Ross says Archer, 30, has given a full confession, saying he did it in the name of Islam. “According to him, police bend laws that are contrary to the teachings of the Quran.”

Sources say the suspect’s full confession of the alleged attack was written down and recorded on video. Commissioner Ross says the suspect has given a full confession, saying he did it in the name of Islam. “According to him, police bend laws that are contrary to the teachings of the Quran.”

Philadelphia’s Muslim community is reacting to the shooting. Community activist and Ahmadiyya Muslim Community USA spokesperson Bilal Quayyum says he has talked to other Muslims in the city about the alleged actions of Archer, and Quayyum says they are “Very upset that he would proclaim a violent act against an individual and in the name of Islam its not what we believe and is a negative.” Quayyum adds that Muslims in Philadelphia are praying for the recovery of Officer Hartnett. The True Islam Campaign was established to help distinguish True Islam from extremists and is sponsored by Quayyum’s organization.

I hope Archer is charged with attempted murder, gun felonies AND terrorist activities.

Story: http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2016/01...st-philly/

[Maggot]

It seems there are quite a few refugees coming out of the woodwork and causing problems. In Germany a bunch went out and were messing with women during New Years. If more come out will the U.S. put a moratorium on visas for a while? If it prevents even one death isn't it worth it?