ANOTHER SCHOOL/PUBLIC SHOOTING

[Midwest Spy]

He’s spot on.

In another week, the memory of this incident will have melded in with all the others, and we’ll continue as usual.

Until the next, where the outrage and prayers will follow.

As the NBC show aptly says, “This is us”.

This is the new normal in America.

As long as the NRA and Gun Loving bullies shout ‘2^nd Amendment, 2^nd Amendment’ everytime an incident occurs, nothing will ever change.

I dare say, it’ll take someone getting into the US Capitol Bldg.and mowing down some of our Reps before something MAY change.

It won’t be a guarantee.

Newtown came and went. We imagined 6 and 7 year old ripped to shreds and not a thing was done.

Come on people, This Is Us

[Love Child]

It makes me cry. I still feel sick, but tonight and last night I was finally able to get alot of it out and write it down and share it with others.
Sorry, being in the mountains for 2 years softened me up, I am no longer numb to this as I once was.

I looked at the timeline today that it took Nikolas Cruz to kill shoot and kill 17 people.
2:19 PM He was dropped off by Uber driver.
2:21 He begins shooting.
2:28 He is leaving the school.

7 minutes.

And yes Duchess, this does feel different. I seem to recall only hearing from parents before after these shootings-or adults, teachers and it seems we immedietly began hearing from the students. And also yes, there is something extraordinary about these students, but like I said earlier, I bet we would find this is the norm across America. (At least I like to think so)

[HairOfTheDog]

The students from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High are not at all afraid to exercise their first amendment rights and not afraid to call out politicians for lack of action when it comes to increased gun safety and control. Good for them -- I truly hope their passion, words and protests will affect positive change.

Some of the students were transformed into activists as soon as the gunfire stopped. One of them is senior Emma Gonzalez. She gave an impassioned speech yesterday calling bullshit on all the standard pro-gun/NRA excuses and the politicians owned by the NRA who continue to push for laxer gun restrictions (including the President).



I was disappointed but not surprised to see President Trump pull a completely narcissistic dick move in regards to the shooting. He made it about him.........again.

President Trump ignorantly tweeted that if the FBI wasn't so busy investigating Russian meddling and his campaign, maybe they would have had time to investigate Nikolas Cruz. Well, the FBI did indeed fuck up big time, no doubt.

But, the call center and agents who handle community tips like the ones about Cruz are obviously not in the same division as those dedicated to foreign intervention. And, even if they were the same, it's pitiful that our President can't put aside his personal beefs and insecurities in the wake of such a painful tragedy.

[Love Child]

Yeah, if it weren't for Russia 17 people would not be dead today. Sad. Did we mention how sad he was, he is very sad.
Such bullshit.
Fucking bullshit.
People are blaming parenting, toxic masculinity, violent video games and movies, hollywood! Oh and don't forget pharmacy! It is not one thing, it is more than one thing and there are several solutions, not just one.

[BigMark]

They should outlaw selling guns to mentally ill people.

[HairOfTheDog]

Wasn't there police presence at the school when he managed to kill 17 people? I thought that's what I read.

At first, there was a statement that the armed guard was on a different part of campus at the time and never encountered the shooter.

Then, I read that the armed guard/school resource officer, a Broward Sheriff’s deputy funded by the city of Parkland, may not have been on campus at all at the time -- maybe it was his day off, maybe he got called off campus...

If that security officer wasn't there at all when the school was attacked, it's going to be another big black mark on another LE agency.

What has been confirmed in terms of security:

1. Marjory Stoneman Douglas school is very prepared for emergencies and attacks, as compared to most schools.

2. Aside from the armed guard, there are gates and fences all around the perimeter of the school which are locked during school hours -- EXCEPT at the start and end of the day when staff unlocks the doors so that students and teachers can get in and out.

3. Cruz knew there was security at his chosen target. But, he got around it by going to the school at the end of day, when the doors had just been unlocked. He wore his purple ROTC shirt, which many other students wear on Wednesdays. That's how he was able to blend in and escape the school undetected in the chaos. It's suspected that he pulled the fire alarm to lure more students and teachers out in the open, but that part hasn't been confirmed yet.

Refs:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/browar...story.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...nd-in.html

[Love Child]

It worries me when people talk about schools having only 1 exit and entrance as a solution. I feel like kids and people need to escape and not be trapped in times of emergencies.

My HS was a series of buildings with open walkways to and from each one. I would actually feel safer there-that I could actually escape and run the hell away from there.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Its hard for me to believe that this kind of thing can still happen after all these years just since Columbine.
We learned nothing. There are still no metal detectors at the vast majority of schools despite the fact they there are detectors at banks airports, court houses, concerts, clubs....
There are many simple solutions that could have stopped or limited this from happening:
Metal detector manned by a guard
All entrances and Exits manned
Searches of all backpacks coming in the buildings
Armed Staff/Guards
How about enforcing all the laws we already have on the books?
Active shooter drills, I drill with my weapons, most of the armed guys I know do to some point
Some lives were saved this time by the presence of some bullet proof glass, why not use some more of this?

Notice not a single one of these things would impinge on anyone's constitutional rights
Not a single one would require the federal govt to do anything
All of them could be accomplished by the local school board, they are responsible for school safety not the govt

I have said it before I am not opposed to fixing the gun laws that do not work, but that's usually not what is in whatever gun legislation that starts up after each one of these incidents.
Here are a couple suggestions that also do not impinge on the constitution:
Connect all the databases, how cool would it be to have all the local police agencies info going in there for people that Should already be in there?
Go and check the known felons for weapons, put a stop to some of these assholes with multiple arrests for weapons charges, 2^nd charge and mandatory Long jail, no parole. Get their ass out of bed at 3am and search them.
Put everyone that been adjudicated as mentally defective in the database. Yes I know this would definitely affect some folks rights, therefore the process needs to be very well thought out, considered and make sure there is no collateral damage to people that should Not be on there.
People that are on psychotrophics need to be looked at, Seems that near every mass shooting not done by a terrorist was done by someone on paxil, prozac or something. The web is Full of evidence on this issue. I don't know how this can be done but with some thought even I could come up with some kind of workable solution. Some folks do great long term on them, others flip the fuk out within hours of their first dose. It seems like the "testing" of these drugs is By Guess and By God. Take this pill for 2 weeks and see how you do, then try another one. My X was on and off of a half dozen just while I was with her and she told me there had been many more before me. I threw out a shit ton of that stuff. I didn't think she had any real serious problem to start with but she damn sure did when she was taking them

Is the No Fly list still active? It sounded like a good idea on its surface but as so many govt things it was a mess, there was no recourse if your on there, no path to get off, no accountability for who is on or not on the list, it was stupid. Those people were not on the nics database, WTF?

ANY change to peoples rights needs to be put through that kind of filter

Thats my rant for now

[HairOfTheDog]

Red Flag Legislation -- Could it help bridge gaps?

I think so and wish it would be enacted nationwide.

It's very difficult to get anyone committed for mental health issues without their consent. Without being medically and legally declared 'mentally unfit', there's currently no way of stopping someone who is sending up all kinds of red flags from buying firearms.

And, even if someone is officially declared "mentally unfit", more states than not do not inform the FBI / NICS due to fear of privacy/HIPPA violations. That needs to change.

In the meantime, a handful of states have enacted Red Flag Laws in attempt to keep guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people displaying violent tendencies or making violent threats.

The article below outlines the current status of Red Flag Laws.

[HairOfTheDog]

Snip:

The warnings around Nikolas Cruz seemed to flash like neon signs: expelled from school, fighting with classmates, a fascination with weapons and hurting animals, disturbing images and comments posted to social media, previous mental health treatment.

So many people came forward about the threat Cruz presented and local police had been called to his home 39 times. In Florida, that wasn't enough for relatives, authorities or his school to request a judicial order barring him from possessing guns.

Only five states have laws allowing family members, guardians or police to ask judges to temporarily strip gun rights from people who show warning signs of violence. Supporters of the measures, deemed "red flag laws" or gun violence restraining orders, say they can save lives by stopping some shootings and suicides.

Florida, where Cruz is accused of using an AR-15 rifle to kill 17 people at his former high school, does not have such a law. He was able to legally own the semi-automatic rifle even though his mother, classmates and teachers had at times described him as dangerous and threatening. I'm hearing this morning that Cruz actually purchases 10 firearms despite all the flags; waiting for that to be confirmed.

(continued)

[HairOfTheDog]

Red flag legislation was introduced last fall in Florida by Democratic lawmakers, but its fate is uncertain in a state Legislature controlled by Republicans who generally favor expanding gun rights. After Wednesday's shooting at a high school in Parkland, a suburb north of Miami, Republican Gov. Rick Scott said he will work to make sure people with mental illnesses don't have access to guns but offered no specifics.

In 2014, California became the first state to let family members ask a judge to remove firearms from a relative who appears to pose a threat. It was passed after a mentally ill man, Elliot Rodger, killed six University of California, Santa Barbara, students and wounded 13 other people near the campus before killing himself.

The law also allows police to petition for the protective orders, which can require firearms to be removed for up to one year. Connecticut, Indiana, Oregon and Washington are the other states with some version of a red flag law.

More than a dozen others, including Hawaii, New Jersey and Missouri, are considering bills that would allow family members or police to petition the courts if they want weapons taken from an individual showing signs of mental distress or violence.

California lawmakers voted to expand their law in 2016 so that high school and college personnel, co-workers and mental health professionals can seek the restraining orders, but Gov. Jerry Brown called the effort premature and vetoed it.

State Assemblyman Phil Ting, a San Francisco Democrat, said he plans to reintroduce the bill.

Full story: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/natio...story.html

[Maggot]

Aaron Feis the coach that put himself in front of students was a part time security gaurd at the school. He should have been armed. But was not, he could have ended it then.

Aaron Feis

[Midwest Spy]

Maggot, I appreciate the sentiment, but I’d feel better if it were an active duty policeman vs a security guard.

This man sacrificed his life, but had no chance against a gun already drawn on him.

Cruz knew a lot of things about this school, including that late in the day, the doors would no longer be locked.

Now, I know it’s hindsight, but why wouldn’t they remain locked until dismissal?

Stupid.

If he would’ve had to shoot his way in, there would’ve been far fewer casualties IMO, and he may not have tried that school at all.

Also, why did arresting officers treat him so kindly?

Not one black eye, nothing?

The creep had just mowed down dozens and it looked like they were picking him up to take him to Disney World.

What an insult to all those that have been beaten by cops and lost their lives for selling “loose” cigarettes on the street.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

I don't know that there is any real validity to having an active duty cop there rather than a trained security guard. Seen too many cases where the cops fired hundreds of rounds and maybe hit the bad guy once in the leg. Most of the cops I have talked to have never even fired their weapon or even drawn it other than at the range once a year

[Duchess]

Also, why did arresting officers treat him so kindly?

I don't want police officers meting out punishment, regardless of what the person has done. I don't want to be that country. C'mon!

[Midwest Spy]

Also, why did arresting officers treat him so kindly?

I don't want police officers meting out punishment, regardless of what the person has done. I don't want to be that country. C'mon!

I think most people would have been fine if he had been shot while being arrested, “fearing for safety” and all.

I’m only clamoring for a couple of right crosses to his face.

[Duchess]

I think most people would have been fine if he had been shot while being arrested, “fearing for safety” and all.

I’m only clamoring for a couple of right crosses to his face.

I get it! I swear I do and it would probably be better if he had resisted. In general, I don't want to be one of those countries. I like to think we're better than that.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't know that there is any real validity to having an active duty cop there rather than a trained security guard. Seen too many cases where the cops fired hundreds of rounds and maybe hit the bad guy once in the leg. Most of the cops I have talked to have never even fired their weapon or even drawn it other than at the range once a year

I don't object to teachers carrying on-the-job IF they want to do so and there are tight guidelines, training courses, and processes in place...though there are some risks to that plan.

I absolutely object to teachers being required to become trained armed security guards. They're already expected to play the role of parents in some people's eyes and don't make a lot of money as it is.

And, it makes no sense to me to require teachers to take on the role of police officers or armed security guards because some people don't trust the police or armed security guards to do their jobs (and for some unknown reason think that teachers could/should do it better). If there's a credible problem with police or security incompetence, it should be fixed not pushed onto others.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

I don't know that there is any real validity to having an active duty cop there rather than a trained security guard. Seen too many cases where the cops fired hundreds of rounds and maybe hit the bad guy once in the leg. Most of the cops I have talked to have never even fired their weapon or even drawn it other than at the range once a year

I don't object to teachers carrying on-the-job IF they want to do so and there are tight guidelines, training courses, and processes in place...though there are some risks to that plan.

I absolutely object to teachers being required to become trained armed security guards. They're already expected to play the role of parents in some people's eyes and don't make a lot of money as it is.

And, it makes no sense to me to require teachers to take on the role of police officers or armed security guards because some people don't trust the police or armed security guards to do their jobs (and for some unknown reason think that teachers could/should do it better). If there's a credible problem with police or security incompetence, it should be fixed not pushed onto others.

Completely agree

[Ski at 1SKY6]

Also, why did arresting officers treat him so kindly?

Mr Spy. I have met Nick and conversed with him three times in the past. I can tell you he comes off as friendly, engaging, interesting and courteous. I never saw his rage side. The police had no reason to do anything to harm him because the arresting officer met the same person I did. I can only venture a guess that he has explosive anger disorder and something triggers it. Until that trigger is set off he is an unassuming and a well-behaved gentleman.