ANOTHER SCHOOL/PUBLIC SHOOTING

[HairOfTheDog]

Follow-up on Fort Lauderdale Airport Shooting

We covered this case starting on page 91 upthread.

Esteban Santiago has pleaded guilty to killing five people and wounding six others in January 2017.



In exchange for the guilty plea and with agreement from the deceased victims' families, the death penalty was taken off the table.

Santiago, a schizophrenic Iraq veteran, had contacted the FBI and told them that ISIS was forcing him to watch their videos in the months before the mass shooting. He had also recently been involved in a domestic violence incident.

His guns were taken away when he proactively called the FBI and he agreed to mental hospitalization. When he was released four days later, LE handed him firearms back and sent him on his way.

I'm glad to hear he won't spend the rest of his life on death row. He is reportedly stabilized now that he's on medication.

What Santiago did was awful. However, he actively sought help and clearly posed an ongoing danger to society. Yet, authorities failed to follow through with monitoring.

In my opinion, Santiago's case supports the need for Red Flag laws (which I support, with due process).

Story: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/esteban-san...-shooting/

[HairOfTheDog]

Oklahoma City



A man entered the Louie's Restaurant tonight, wearing ear protectors and eye glasses, and began shooting at people.

He hit a woman and her 12-year-old daughter as they were entering the restaurant for a family birthday celebration.

Mother and daughter are both in surgery.

Witnesses say the man seemed to be shooting randomly.

As the shooter was trying to flee the scene, a male civilian armed with a handgun shot the shooter dead. Other witnesses on the scene described the armed civilian as a blessing.

No identities or further details yet available.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...urant.html

[Duchess]

Shoots fired at a middle school in Indiana. A middle school! Jesus Christ. I have no details. Same shit, different school.

[HairOfTheDog]

Shoots fired at a middle school in Indiana. A middle school! Jesus Christ. I have no details. Same shit, different school.

No longer surprising, but no less sad and maddening. :(

A heroic science teacher tackled a student gunman to the ground after he opened fire in an Indiana classroom on Friday morning, leaving two people critically injured.



According to students who survived, the gunman burst into a classroom at Noblesville West Middle School at 9.06am and opened fire, critically injuring a 13-year-old girl and one teacher.

It is not clear if the injured teacher is the same one who brought him to the ground.

The shooter (believed to be a student) was arrested shortly afterwards and remains in police custody.

I sure hope the shooting victims survive.

Story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z5GWsf0gzB

[Duchess]

Good news! VP Mike Pence & Mother are praying for the victims of the latest school shooting.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Still no locks on doors or metal detectors. Still no govt sponsored PSA's telling folks to secure their guns, Still no public warnings about kids on phychotrophic drugs, still no one in jail for bullying, and other fucktardery

[HairOfTheDog]

Some updates on the Indiana middle school shooting

The student gunman burst into the seventh grade science classroom and opened fire on students around 9am.

He had been sitting in the class and returned with two handguns after asking to be excused.

A thirteen-year-old girl was wounded before science teacher Jason Seaman, 30, tackled the shooter to the ground.

Seaman ^ was shot three times as he wrestled the student and 'swatted' the gun out of his hand. Brave man.

He underwent surgery after being taken to hospital and his family say he is doing 'well'.

The teenage girl who was injured was in a critical condition this morning and there has been no update.

The suspect is in custody but no details about his identity have been released other than that he is a student.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z5GY1ArP86
---------------------------------------------

If recent history is an indicator, the shooter will have used his parent's guns and either the girl rejected him or he will claim to have been bullied at school.

[HairOfTheDog]

Follow-up to post #1782


Juan Carlos Nazario


Brian Whittle

Nazario (a licensed security guard) and Whittle (a National Guard member) were near the Louie's Restaurant in Oklahoma City when they heard shots ring out. They reportedly both went to their vehicles and retrieved their guns.

When the gunman who'd just randomly shot three people entering the restaurant was fleeing the scene, the two strangers ordered him to drop his gun. The gunman, Alex Tilghman - 28, (a licensed conceal carry security guard), didn't comply.

So, the two good samaritans shot him, killing Tilghman before he could shoot anyone else. This appears to be a true case of good guys with guns stopping a bad guy with a gun.

Oklahoma City police and people near the scene of the crime are grateful and hailing the two men as heroes.

Hopefully, the three victims will all pull through.

Refs:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018...645607002/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ooter.html

[Donovan]

Of course the Fox crowd will be all over this while ignoring the fact that the shooter was ALSO a concealed carry licensed security guard...a "good guy with a gun".

Bottom line is, people are people. Good, bad, indifferent. We all have our moments of triumph and of weakness. We all have moments of rage. And when there is a gun handy...

[HairOfTheDog]

Bottom line is, people are people. Good, bad, indifferent. We all have our moments of triumph and of weakness. We all have moments of rage. And when there is a gun handy...

Yep, people are 'good' until they're not and there's often no way of foreseeing that they're about to do something very very bad.

We've covered numerous spree and mass public shooters in this thread and others where the killer was thought to be a "good guy" until he wasn't -- quiet, no significant criminal record, no known previous mental health problems, trained in gun safety, military veterans, ex-cops...

And, more often than not, the teen school shooters were also regarded as normal kids until they started shooting up their peers and teachers; the Parkland, Florida shooter being a severe exception to that rule (he was openly threatening to do what he eventually did and LE knew that far in advance).

[HairOfTheDog]

This is encouraging news.

The science teacher who stopped the Indiana middle school shooter has been released from the hospital.

The young female shooting victim, 13-year-old Ella Whistler (pictured below), is still in critical condition but her family says she is now stable.



The student shooter's identity hasn't been released, probably because he's a minor.

In school shooting news: The Santa Fe (Texas) High School shooter's dad is being sued by the families of his victims for not securing his firearms. I hope they win, especially if LE doesn't file criminal charges against dad.

[Duchess]

I'm happy to see another state take matters into their own hands. The Rhode Island governor has signed a bill to ban bump stocks and another to implement a red flag law. This is good news.

[Maggot]

Private schools cost are from 10,000 to 30,000 per student public schools cost 10,000 to 18,000 per student. Private schools have great security, I wish public schools would do the same.

[Donovan]

I would like to see guns have a licensing, registration and tracking/insurance system directly linked to individual owners like motor vehicles or control drugs do. If buyers were more directly and legally liable for the potential damage their guns might do, they might be a fuckload more careful keeping them locked up. And since such a system a) already exists for many other potentially dangerous products, and b) does not in any way infringe on the holiest of holy amendments, then nobody should bitch. In addition, a per-gun insurance requirement would potentially ratchet down the real nuts among us who seem to be using multiple guns as substitute penises. Hard to buy a hundred guns when you gotta insure all of em.

[sally]

Im with you on that.

[Maggot]

If I have to be responsible with my guns and keep other people away from them, keep them locked up and away from others I feel as though everyone should be as responsible. It's the stupid people that do not keep them safe that are destroying and ruining gun ownership. They should be held accountable for anything that happens with their guns. If that happened more often or had been happening many problems and deaths would have been prevented. It's just a matter of time, and in today's world people are just becoming incredibly stupid. It's needed in this day and age when personal pride and responsibility is becoming null and void. Sadly yesterday is gone.

[Midwest Spy]

Hmmm...

Both Maggot and Dono said what I’ve been saying.

Make the owner liable for any crime committed with their gun.

And, I like the insurance idea too, but that’ll never get passed.

[Donovan]

When it comes to sensible gun control, most halfway reasonable people aren't very far apart. A lot of this impassable divide bullshit is a construct created by the Russian bot machine and political campaigns. Any craftsman or tool user knows you don't fucking leave a chainsaw unattended or toss a toddler a nailgun or let the middle schooler take the truck out for a spin. Common sense. And tools with deadly potential, like guns or cars or psychotropic drugs, deserve to be carefully regulated for the sake of safety. The insurance for guns would be in the case of accidental injury or death due to negligence, same as if you accidentally run someone over or they slip and fall on your sidewalk. Common sense. The only reason it would be irrational to insure a firearm is because even gun nuts know the chance for accidental death or misuse is ridiculously high.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah, it's the extremist single-issue voters, coveted and supported by the gun lobby and NRA-owned politicians, who keep new gun safety/control measures from being enacted.

When Congress won't pass a bill calling for universal background checks -- even though the legislation is supported by nearly 90% of the population across all political affiliations (including gun owners) -- you know a lobby group has way more power than it should over Republican politicians.

Extremist gun advocates always say that there's fat or riders attached to the bill by Democrats/liberals/gun-grabbers.......thus, the bill should of course be rejected. That's straight up bullshit.

In response to that bullshit, I've posted the final post-Newton UBC bill which was submitted to Congress and rejected by Republicans a few times in the GUNS thread.

That bill didn't have any pork or riders attached. It even expressly stated that the government was not going to push for a gun registry (huge fear for the extremists who believe that would open the door for big brother to come and take their guns).

And still.........6 or 7 years after Newtown and hundreds of school shootings later, people can still buy/acquire guns legally without any vetting. One of the recent school shooters bought his gun over the internet to avoid a background check because he was underage. We also don't have a federal law requiring safe storage of firearms in the U.S.

So, while I think the gun insurance concept is worth exploring, I can't see it getting anywhere.........for now. But, that could change if enough people (young, old, and the rest of us) get our asses to the polls and reject all NRA-backed candidates.

[sally]

You get punished and fined for trying to work without insurance. My husband pays over 50k per year for workers comp, general liability and auto insurance just to go on a construction jobsite for an honest living. It wouldn't hurt my feelings any if people had to get insurance to buy guns.