TURMOIL IN THE UKRAINE / RUSSIA AGGRESSION

[MirahM]

I suppose I could have made the post w/out stating that.

[rothschild]

I suppose I could have made the post w/out stating that.

It's how we think that matters, not what we post. I'm glad you posted what you did.

[BlueTiki]

When I'm questioned about my stance to the extent the US should be involved in Ukraine, I always ask:  

"What makes Ukraine a democracy the US should support ?"

And then:  "Should we continue to support Turkey's democracy, too?   You realize that they are a member of NATO, right? "

The answers are usually idiotic and priceless!

[BlueTiki]

Anticipating your future hiking adventures, Mirah and roth!

[MirahM]

Oh. My.

[MirahM]

When you put it like that, I think we might be able to have a decent hike in the Columbia River Gorge. 

I just wonder who would get thrown off a cliff first.

[BlueTiki]

I think you'd both be fine as you would both be enjoying the beauty and splendor of nature.

(Bring your pepper-spray . . . just in case!)

[rothschild]

When you put it like that, I think we might be able to have a decent hike in the Columbia River Gorge. 

I just wonder who would get thrown off a cliff first.

Reading through the rona thread was pretty cringey. Sorry about some of the things I said.

Nah, we'd do fine, because we wouldn't be talking about politics. Nature brings out the best in me. But just in case, Tiki can be our chaparone.

[Duchess]

Sorry about some of the things I said.

[MirahM]

srsly wut
LOL

[sally]

Stop fucking spelling seriously what like that. Actually don't even say seriously before what. Goddammnit.

[MirahM]

lol

[Duchess]

[rothschild]

Tiki, would you care to elaborate on the situationality of Western humanism?

[BlueTiki]

Tiki, would you care to elaborate on the situationality of Western humanism?

I'll comment . . . change that to my "two-cents" . . . on the redefining of humanism.  Specifically, without the need to reexamine its philosophical beginnings.

What I see now, that is the current antithesis of humanism; the silencing of speech and thought . . . especially when it comes to the other tenets of humanistic philosophy . . . you know the ones.  

Science, "progressive ideas" . . . and democracy. 

I think that about covers it in an extremely condensed and impromptu response.

[rothschild]

Tiki, would you care to elaborate on the situationality of Western humanism?

What I see now, that is the current antithesis of humanism; the silencing of speech and thought . . . especially when it comes to the other tenets of humanistic philosophy . . . you know the ones.  

Science, "progressive ideas" . . . and democracy. 

Have you read Rousseau's Political Economy? A short read that I highly recommend, it's a beautifully succinct summarization of the causes underlying the collapse of Western society.

To my mind, egalitarianism and elitism are mutually exclusive, just as meritocracy and elitism are, though you might not think so. A specious proposition which we never managed to rise above. Keep the masses ignorant so they can be managed like livestock and aristocracy is maintained in perpetuity, for as long as it doesn't devour itself.

You can't have an enlightened society without an enlightened people. Progressivism assumed the captaincy of government to be concerned with enlightenment. If it was it would have made philosophy the foundation of public education. Instead it went with the Prussian model, and the results have been precisely what you'd expect. If progressivism had instead manifested as a grassroots movement the outcome might have been different, but elitist institutions produce an elitist intelligentsia, thus the vanguard approach was ensured at the outset.

It is rare that human beings serve interests other than their own, and rarer still among those who wield power. To be ignorant of history and philosophy is to be blind, thus our mistakes are continuously repeated, never to be learned from. If a slave believes itself to be free it will never consider the possibility of escape, much less attempt it. It will equate slavery/dependency with freedom, and if they encounter someone who articulates a more accurate conception of freedom the response will be cognitive dissonance.

You referenced comedy, which can transcend social consciousness over time. Art, coupled with necessity, could loosen the bonds of enslavement, and perhaps they are. There are people in this world who do embody genuine egalitarianism, who could provide legitimate leadership if circumstances were to allow; the appreciation of this possibility, however, requires acknowledging that what we think we know might have no basis in reality. Looked at in the context of human potential, I see that as less far-fetched than most would think. The question, I think, is whether or not the dam bursts.

[BlueTiki]

I have read Rousseau.  I agree with your analysis and conclusions.

And my position on the stifling or outright banning of speech and thought, is a tool to control the masses.

Especially when it is perpetrated under the guise of  "for safety ".

I believe Franklin's words:   " They who can give up liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. "

[rothschild]

I have read Rousseau.  I agree with your analysis and conclusions.

And my position on the stifling or outright banning of speech and thought, is a tool to control the masses.

Especially when it is perpetrated under the guise of  "for safety ".

I believe Franklin's words:   " They who can give up liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. "

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/brr3QWUpH6w

[BlueTiki]

Thanks.

[BlueTiki]

Last month . . . another $800M to Ukraine.

This month . . . another $200M.

And gas jumped 40 cents a gallon from Sunday to Monday  ($4.19 to $4.59).

Must be Putin . . . it's gotta be Putin!  Right?  (At least that what we were told . . . initially.  Just like inflation was "transitory" and "temporary".)

And not even a nice and pricey Hallmark card, from the White House, to Maui.

Ahhh . . . priorities.