The Crying Game / TRANSGENDER DISCUSSION

[Duchess]

Did he just decide to become a woman or did he want to become one when he was younger like when he was a teenager?

He said he's felt like a female since he was a little boy.

[HairOfTheDog]

He was reportedly cross-dressing at 8 years old, Maggot.

He had breast augmentation in the 80s before he had stepdaughters, but the Hollywood exposure that would have come with a transition scared him off back then.

There are many ways that Bruce Jenner could have gotten a lot of media attention without completely changing his body and identity.

I think fame was a curse in some ways for Jenner as a transgender, and she's trying to use it for positive purposes now. That's my perception from listening to Jenner's own words and how they've been delivered.

[Maggot]

People can do anything they want its a free country somewhat, but I still think he's a freak. If a guy started talking to me about how tight his girdle was I might slug him. I guess I'm not acclimated to this stuff as much as most women.
Or maybe because he/she caused the death of another recently through incompetence or whatever it was, and now he/she is all smiles. Not sure.

[Midwest Spy]

Famous and beautiful?

What if he didn't turn out to be beautiful? Would that matter or does it just enhance the story?

I still think it's way over the top and most people I've talked to feel the same. That it's just another stab at notoriety.

[Duchess]

I still think it's way over the top and most people I've talked to feel the same. That it's just another stab at notoriety.

So y'all believe that she just loves being under the microscope like this and the transition is simply a ploy to remain in the public eye in a high profile way?

[Midwest Spy]

I still think it's way over the top and most people I've talked to feel the same. That it's just another stab at notoriety.

So y'all believe that she just loves being under the microscope like this and the transition is simply a ploy to remain in the public eye in a high profile way?

Yes I do.

This certainly is a way to remain relevant. I'm not discounting her feelings she's expressed (I mean if she's lying about that, wow), but in this age of reality TV, and tolerance and acceptance at an all time high, this would be a perfect time to kill all those birds with one stone.

[Maggot]

No, I think he/she truly believes he/she is what he/she says he/she is. But the bills still have to be paid.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't have the answer to your questions MS.

Famous people get more notoriety than regular Joes and Josephines no matter what, hence being "famous".

I don't know if it would have enhanced the story more or less or had an impact on the coverage if Jenner had made for an ugly woman.

Anyway, I understand how you and Maggot feel. Lots of people feel that way. I see transgender individuals more than most, I'd guess, because of where I live and it's not shocking or anything to me anymore. I probably come across some that I don't know are transgender too.

For me, it's about listening to people and trying to understand what they're relaying and their motives, whether I agree or share the same perspectives or not. I have a solid bullshit detector and, after watching and listening to Jenner explain his experiences and feelings, I don't think that his gender transition was motivated by a desire to maintain/increase his already massive notoriety at all. However, I do feel that he is trying to manage that notoriety and use it to achieve something positive in this case.

But, you might watch and listen, hopefully with an open mind, and feel differently.

[Clang McFly]

And society is embracing it.

Puke.

Would you hit it?

I wouldn't hit it with Clang's dick.

I'd hit it with my dick. Jenner makes a hotter woman than my girlfriend.

[Midwest Spy]

And society is embracing it.

Puke.

Would you hit it?

I wouldn't hit it with Clang's dick.

I'd hit it with my dick. Jenner makes a hotter woman than my girlfriend.

lol.

I'm sure you're not alone in that thinking.

[Jimbone]

Wait, he's having his twig and berries removed? I thought he was just cross dressing with implants?

[cannongal]

It's smart that Jenner took control of that and made it mostly positive attention for himself and an opportunity to promote awareness and understanding of transgender issues.

The trans that I know do not want him as their pitchman. Not sure about the rest of the trans community, though.

Personally, I think the Jenner formerly known as Bruce is going to do more harm than good in promoting awareness and acceptance. Vanity fair didn't do any favors with the airbrushing, either. Yeah, they made cait look good, but now the entire Trans community is going to have to look just as good, if they want the "acceptance" that Cait got.

[HairOfTheDog]

^ I haven't spoken to any transgender persons about it personally, cannongal. But, I understand their concerns.

Over the last couple of months, I've seen transgenders interviewed and LGBT leaders discussing the issue. Some of them had the same concerns about an unrealistic bar being set and Jenner making her journey an entertainment/voyeur attraction without really helping to raise cross-the-board transgender awareness and understanding.

From what I've seen and heard since the Dianne Sawyer interview aired, I think those concerns have dissipated. They have for me personally as well. I really do think she will have a positive impact on the transgender community, based on what I've seen so far.

I don't doubt that there will indeed be people who see Jenner and then bag on transgenders who come out and look more like men in drag, or works in progress as they more slowly transition, when compared to Jenner. Ignorance and shallowness of that kind is probably projected equally by them on all minorities and others in general though, IMO.

Anyway, I think the majority of people who are open-minded enough to have any interest in transgender issues in the first place will likely understand that -- as is the case within any segment of the population -- the rich and famous are typically more glamorous than the rest of us. I don't think most open-minded people will hold everyone in the transgender community to "star" standards.

[Jimbone]

So this is what's next, as far as I can tell it's not satire:

Becoming disabled by choice, not chance: ‘Transabled’ people feel like impostors in their fully working bodies

OTTAWA — When he cut off his right arm with a “very sharp power tool,” a man who now calls himself One Hand Jason let everyone believe it was an accident.

But he had for months tried different means of cutting and crushing the limb that never quite felt like his own, training himself on first aid so he wouldn’t bleed to death, even practicing on animal parts sourced from a butcher.

“My goal was to get the job done with no hope of reconstruction or re-attachment, and I wanted some method that I could actually bring myself to do,” he told the body modification website ModBlog.

His goal was to become disabled.

People like Jason have been classified as ‘‘transabled’’ — feeling like imposters in their bodies, their arms and legs in full working order.

“We define transability as the desire or the need for a person identified as able-bodied by other people to transform his or her body to obtain a physical impairment,” says Alexandre Baril, a Quebec born academic who will present on “transability” at this week’s Congress of the Social Sciences and Humanities at the University of Ottawa.

“The person could want to become deaf, blind, amputee, paraplegic. It’s a really, really strong desire.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada...ederated=1

[Maggot]

I've wanted to gnaw off my right arm under a persons head before so I wouldn't wake them.

[HairOfTheDog]

I understand why transgenders don't want to be lumped in with transabled individuals, but I think it's fair to examine the similarities.

My thinking is this: do what you want with your body and your life. It's your right unless you pose a threat to others in the process.

If you feel you're trapped in the body of the wrong gender and wanna transition from a male identity/body to a female identity/body (or vice versa), fine by me. The medical community recognizes transgenderism or gender dysphoria as a psychological disorder and, in many cases, recommends transition as the preferred treatment.

If you wanna cut off your arm, fine by me too. I hope you live to tell. But, I think it's gonna be a long while, if ever, before the medical community recommends transitioning a healthy body to a disabled body as treatment for a psychological disorder or recommends that known self-mutilators be qualified to receive disability benefits. I think doctors will instead continue to recommend mental health treatment designed to reduce/eliminate the desire for physical disablement in the rare cases of trans-able syndrome.

But, who knows? Maybe somewhere down the line there will be doctors intentionally disabling people as treatment for transablism, and there will emerge a social movement to promote tolerance of the transabled.

[sally]

[HairOfTheDog]

I just saw the picture in the Porsche that Duchess mentioned upthread.

I bet Bill Clinton won't be the only one checking Jenner out.

[Duchess]

How DARE you!

[Clang McFly]

I just saw the picture in the Porsche that Duchess mentioned upthread.

I bet Bill Clinton won't be the only one checking Jenner out.

hubba hubba. Ooh lala.