The Crying Game / TRANSGENDER DISCUSSION

[ZEROSPHERES]

I disagree Rams. Caitlyn is not only NEWS but she is also relevant.

[Jimbone]

If I really feel like I'm disabled but trapped in a healthy body, I can transition and become disabled. If I really feel like I'm an equine trapped in the body of a human, I can transition to be a horse.

You're in MS territory now.

Did you not read the story I posted about healthy people transitioning to disabled? It's an actual thing, just like someone wanting to switch from male to female.

The horse example was just hyperbole (and I used horses just for you!).

Or course it only remain hyperbole until species dysphoria becomes a thing...

[Jimbone]

I don't know why your head hurts.

You sound very clear on your stance.

Because of taking in all the back and forth on this topic.

So after re-reading the thread, I figured science was the only way to solve it. At the genetic level there is no escaping who you are. People can pretend to be whatever they want, but they will always be a male or a female homo sapien.

I think I'm clear for now

[Duchess]

People can pretend to be whatever they want

I don't think you understand, she is not pretending. People don't make life changing decisions such as the ones she has made, on a whim.

[sally]

Beats me sal.

I don't care much about strangers' genitals or sex lives and I don't know Jenner.

You said you watched the interview so I thought Dianne may have covered that since it kind of goes with the territory of transitioning.

Does he plan on living as a gay female or does he want the traditional man and woman role, which isn't possible sexually since he's keeping his penis and penis enters vagina. If you touch your index finger to your thumb to make a circle and then poke your other index finger in and out of it you'll better understand.

[Jimbone]

I don't think you understand, she is not pretending. People don't make life changing decisions such as the ones she has made, on a whim.

I understand, but I'm separating the psychological condition from human biology.

Bruce Jenner is being something he is not. He is being Caitlyn Jenner, a woman. He can never be a woman, so by definition he is pretending to be one.

That said, I think he is as serious as a heart attack about being Caitlyn. I understand that he truly thinks he is a woman.

But he is not. He is still currently and will die a man.

[sally]

People can pretend to be whatever they want

I don't think you understand, she is not pretending. People don't make life changing decisions such as the ones she has made, on a whim.

Mentally he may be a woman, but physically he's not. That's why he's not having a full sex change. He's been using his penis like a man all these years because well he is a man and I imagine it would be hard to just chop it off. So he's pretending to be a woman in the physical sense.

[sally]

The sperm dictated the sex of little baby Bruce and he can't change his chromosomes so he'll never be a woman.

Anything else I can teach you about the birds and the bees just ask.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't know why your head hurts.

You sound very clear on your stance.

Because of taking in all the back and forth on this topic.

So after re-reading the thread, I figured science was the only way to solve it. At the genetic level there is no escaping who you are. People can pretend to be whatever they want, but they will always be a male or a female homo sapien.

I think I'm clear for now

That's good Jimbone.

I think people's psychologies play a significant role in determining who we truly are and I acknowledge that transgenderism is real. I understand that you don't acknowledge transgenders exist, at least you didn't upthread. And, I don't feel motivated to advise other people on what pronouns they should use when referring to transgender individuals, but I understand that you do. And so on...

IDK. For me, those such differences in style and back and forth exchanges between us and other members aren't confusing or head-hurting. They're part of what keeps it interesting and sometimes enlightening for me in here. Clearly, I like the variety and diversity.

Anyway, I'm really interested in the different opinions and facts being discussed in this thread and am still learning about the subject matter. It's a pretty new topic of exploration for most of society. And while I agree with ramsey that Jenner's coming out and transitioning doesn't make her a hero, I do in fact consider it news.

[HairOfTheDog]

Beats me sal.

I don't care much about strangers' genitals or sex lives and I don't know Jenner.

You said you watched the interview so I thought Dianne may have covered that since it kind of goes with the territory of transitioning.

Does he plan on living as a gay female or does he want the traditional man and woman role, which isn't possible sexually since he's keeping his penis and penis enters vagina. If you touch your index finger to your thumb to make a circle and then poke your other index finger in and out of it you'll better understand.

I did cover what he said about that when I recapped the interview upthread.

I haven't heard or read an update since then and haven't been interested in finding one.

However, if you stick your thumb up your ass and bounce up and down on it while tuning into her reality series, perhaps you'll get the answers to your probing questions.

[Blindgreed1]

Birth gender is what counts from a leagal standpoint. Beyond that I don't care what a person does with their appearance.

The birth gender can legally be changed for transgenders in many countries, including the US.

But, but the process varies by state. http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rig...signations

Even if you change your birth gender it still shows your original birth gender. i.e. "Legally female at birth, original birth gender male" and a Homonymous report will allign the date of the gender change leagally as well as SSI # so what's the point?

[Duchess]

However, if you stick your thumb up your ass and bounce up and down on it while tuning into her reality series, perhaps you'll get the answers to your probing questions.

[sally]

I didn't think it was funny. I've never talked to her in such a nasty way.

Anyway, I didn't see where she recapped the video so I looked it up. I guess he feels like he has a woman's soul although he doesn't have homosexual feelings. That may change however from the hormones since they also affect a person mentally.

[Duchess]

I didn't think it was funny. I've never talked to her in such a nasty way.

Because you don't have a sense of humor. You laugh once every six months and getting a smile from you is like pulling teeth, you miserable old twat.

[sally]

Yeah right, I laugh at shit Clang says all the time.

[Duchess]

Who can tell?

I'd throw your ass down on the ground, straddle you and blow on your belly until you laughed. Count on it!

[Jimbone]

I think people's psychologies play a significant role in determining who we truly are and I acknowledge that transgenderism is real. I understand that you don't acknowledge transgenders exist, at least you didn't upthread. And, I don't feel motivated to advise other people on what pronouns they should use when referring to transgender individuals, but I understand that you do. And so on...

With regard to pronoun usage, I was following what I thought was their lead. The Diane Sawyer interview was all male pronouns... did it switch now in Vanity Fair?

I enjoy the back and forth, and my head didn't really hurt. Just a turn of phrase of sorts to keep it interesting... being all didactic isn't as fun for me.

[Blindgreed1]

Who can tell?

I'd throw your ass down on the ground, straddle you and blow on your belly until you laughed. Count on it!

Raspberry pics?

[HairOfTheDog]

Even if you change your birth gender it still shows your original birth gender. i.e. "Legally female at birth, original birth gender male" and a Homonymous report will allign the date of the gender change leagally as well as SSI # so what's the point?

The point is that the legal "sex" of the transgender person will match their actual gender identity when the birth certificate is changed/amended.

A trans woman would then able to check "female" as her sex/gender on all official docs without delays or possible fraud charges or anything like that. Also, if she decides to marry a man, or sign a lease with a man, it is easier at present (and also accurate in her mind) to do so as a heterosexual couple.

And, it would prevent a lot of potential hassles for travel if a birth certificate was being used for ID. Etc...

Sal: post 185, first bullet point. He wasn't sure whether he was going to get sex reassignment surgery back in February when the interview was conducted.

[HairOfTheDog]

I think people's psychologies play a significant role in determining who we truly are and I acknowledge that transgenderism is real. I understand that you don't acknowledge transgenders exist, at least you didn't upthread. And, I don't feel motivated to advise other people on what pronouns they should use when referring to transgender individuals, but I understand that you do. And so on...

With regard to pronoun usage, I was following what I thought was their lead. The Diane Sawyer interview was all male pronouns... did it switch now in Vanity Fair?

You clearly stated that there was no need to refer to Jenner as "she" BECAUSE, you said, Jenner is a man. That's your opinion and that's fine, no need to bullshit about it now.

And yes, it was covered upthread that Jenner was going by "Bruce" and was fine with being referred to as "he" until he officially announced his transition. He also said he didn't care if people messed up and referred to him as "he" afterwards either.

The whole pronoun thing was also discussed upthread when I went back and forth with Donovan for chastising those of us who disagreed with his contention that convicted male murderers who claim to identify as women should always be referred to as "she" and get sex reassignment surgery courtesy of the tax payers.