Ferguson & St. Louis, MO -- Deaths and Protests

[HairOfTheDog]

^ I hope that you or Gunnar take the initiative and start a dedicated thread about Dillon Taylor's case if you’re interested. There are, in fact, over 40 recent media pieces pertaining to the case which you could reference, along with the body cam video of the shooting and coverage of the protests.

Personally, I feel Officer Cruz was justified in the shooting based on the police body cam audio/video + testimony of the other responding officer + the fact that the officers were responding to a call about perps with a gun (none of which was the case in the Michael Brown shooting). Based on what I know, it's my opinion that the shooting was a justifiable “mistake”. Dillon wasn’t armed and there is some contention by his supporters that he didn’t hear the officer’s commands when he failed to turn around as directed and instead went for his waist band (as recorded by body cam), after his friends had already complied with police instructions.

I understand the Salt Lake City authorities’ decision not to charge Officer Cruz -- who appears white but is classified as a minority by police -- same as I understand the Ferguson grand jury’s lack of indictment against Officer Wilson. I also understand those who don’t believe that there is ever justification for shooting an unarmed person (though for me it’s case-by-case), and I understand why members of Dillon's and Michael's families and their communities continue to protest in both Missouri and Utah. It's not black vs. white for me, Cars. Lotta gray in my view.

As for your statement: 'The "media" does rule/brainwash the sheeple masses, contrary to what HotD believes.'

Real and perceived cases of racial discrimination have existed in societies around the world since long before the birth of “media”. The claim that “media” is to blame for perceptions that racial discrimination may be a factor in the shootings of unarmed black teens by white officers is therefore illogical and baseless, to me. I respect that you and others see it differently.

Regarding “mindless sheeple”: I don’t disagree that some people believe whatever they see or hear – regardless of the source (be it media, friends, lovers, politicians...). And, I know for a fact that some people are narrow-minded old fools who aren’t objective enough to consider and respect differing views when insisting that their beliefs are right and others' are wrong.

However, in my experience, those people are in the vast minority and are not the people who are forming or influencing social policy and opinions. I know far more people who are quite able to consider any source, question or recognize spin/bias/ sensationalism when they see or suspect it, and then use the facts + critical thinking + observation to form their own opinions.

I am sorry that your experiences lead you to believe that you’re smarter and less gullible than everyone who follows the news and doesn’t share your views, Cars. But, you are of course entitled to hang on to that belief and I’m entitled to a different one. Personally, I have no cause to believe that I and all Americans who watch/read media news and happen to have a broader or different perspective than @Carsman must be “brainwashed mindless sheeple”.

But, what the hell do I know? I also don’t believe that Ebola is the end of the world as we know it. I think that snakes are truly beautiful creatures. And, I think diversity is one of the best parts of life -- I'd be bored silly if everyone looked or thought or acted as do I.

It takes all kinds (to keep things interesting, IMO).

[Maggot]

The media targets the ones that cannot think for themselves or have an original opinion. They sensationalize most things with or without bias but they do have an influence. many people have forgotten how to think for themselves and do not search for the truth through the many media outlets available.
Sometimes its worth researching other countries media for a truly different perspective. But people are lazy and go on the first thing they hear and the media as an unwritten rule know this. Death sells good news and good deeds do not.

[Duchess]

Darren Wilson has resigned from the Ferguson police force.

I was going to channel Nancy Grace and scream BOMBSHELL but I'm too tired.

[Carsman]

You don't have to be sorry, it is what it is. And you have to admit the Ebola "media" hype" is what blew it out of proportion for the sheeple. Myself included. However, for my feelings on Ebola now, I adapted, see "Ebola is in America", pg 17 post # 232.
And SNAKES, I HATE SNAKES, never said they were not beautiful, I just HATE SNAKES! (Did I mention, I HATE SNAKES?)
That's my prerogative, right?

[username]

"Ebola Epidemic in America"

"Polar Vortex"

"Snowvember"

Nah, the media doesn't sensationalize stuff.

Seriously, it drives me mad. They take what's trending on social media and just blow it the f-up with non-stop news reels. Walter Cronkite didn't do that shit. The media helped create the insanity in Ferguson by predicting mass riots, talking up the fact that the national guard were being brought in, anticipating looting and the like. People (the weak) feed on that shit.

You can't put a muzzle on them but the reporting is completely lopsided and designed to incite interest and even participation. I don't think it's coincidental that when a story stops getting replayed over and over and over again, the movements behind it tend to settle down as well.

[HairOfTheDog]

And SNAKES, I HATE SNAKES, never said they were not beautiful, I just HATE SNAKES! (Did I mention, I HATE SNAKES?)
That's my prerogative, right?

Right indeed. You get to hate snakes all you want.

It don't think your fear of snakes makes you mindless just because I don't fear or dislike them in the least.

Your blatant snake-hatin' humor makes me laugh sometimes (though the serious panic-stricken Ebola crappola was even funnier).

[HairOfTheDog]

You can't put a muzzle on them but the reporting is completely lopsided and designed to incite interest and even participation. I don't think it's coincidental that when a story stops getting replayed over and over and over again, the movements behind it tend to settle down as well.

I think a person would have to be mentally challenged to think that the media didn't sensationalize.

But, is the media to blame for what people think, feel and do because the mass of the American people are mindless sheeple? I don't think so.

If protestors in Ferguson were attacking each other or cops/guardsmen, continuing to burn buildings, continuing to vandalize...the media would still be right there, front and center, "Live from the Riot Zone!!". But, the media isn't much there anymore because the big sensational story isn't much there anymore.

Likewise, if all mainstream media sources came out and said "there is nothing to indicate that any of the killings of unarmed black teens by white officers had any racial implications whatsoever" and then went on to make a compelling case in support of that statement and ran it over and over, it would not make the perception of racism go away, IMO. The media didn't create racism or the perception thereof, nor the impassioned reactions to it, and it can't eradicate them either. The media is not to blame. But, yeah, they can sure sensationalize, package, and sell an angle to those in the market. I agree there.

[Carsman]

And SNAKES, I HATE SNAKES, never said they were not beautiful, I just HATE SNAKES! (Did I mention, I HATE SNAKES?)
That's my prerogative, right?

Right indeed. You get to hate snakes all you want.

It don't think your fear of snakes makes you mindless just because I don't fear or dislike them in the least.

Your blatant snake-hatin' humor makes me laugh sometimes (though the serious panic-stricken Ebola crappola was even funnier).

I don't fear SNAKES, (I HATE SNAKES) I deal with them when I have to, I just HATE SNAKES. Yes I do, I HATE SNAKES~

[HairOfTheDog]

You fear snakes!

You're afraid that they're gonna hiss at you, slither up and down your trembling body, and then quickly sink their sharp little fangs into your flesh and pollute your bloodstream with their poisonous venom.

The End!!

I'm just playing -- I stand corrected; I thought you said you hated them because they scared you before.

[Carsman]

You fear snakes!

You're afraid that they're gonna hiss at you, slither up and down your trembling body, and then quickly sink their sharp little fangs into your flesh and pollute your bloodstream with their poisonous venom.

The End!!

I'm just playing -- I stand corrected; I thought you said you hated them because they scared you before.

No, before your time here, we had a SNAKE, (I HATE SNAKES) in our villa down South several years ago. (I HATE SNAKES)
I plugged anything & everything in the walls (wall outlets & switches, plumbing pipes through the walls under sinks & bowls, anything that looked like the smallest opening a SNAKE (I HATE SNAKES) could get though. Well, one SOB SNAKE (I HATE SNAKES) slithered through over 50 feet of A/C condensation pipe under the ground and into our A/C unit.
It eventually appeared coiled up 3 feet away from my better half who was on our computer in the SUN room!
She shrieked, SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKK!!! I immediately grabbed a rake, scooped it up and through it outdoors, but the damage was done. Our villa was violated!!! (I HATE SNAKES!!!)

[HairOfTheDog]

Darren Wilson has resigned from the Ferguson police force.

I was going to channel Nancy Grace and scream BOMBSHELL but I'm too tired.

Nancy's BOMBSHELL TONIGHT! pieces are almost always last week's news.

It's been all-but-confirmed for months that Wilson would resign from the force after the grand jury decision. Here's his resignation statement:

"I, Darren Wilson, hereby resign my commission as a police officer with the City of Ferguson effective immediately. I have been told that my continued employment may put the residents and police officers of the City of Ferguson at risk, which is a circumstance that I cannot allow. For obvious reasons, I wanted to wait until the grand jury made their decision before I officially made my decision to resign. It was my hope to continue in police work, but the safety of other police officers and the community are of paramount importance to me. It is my hope that my resignation will allow the community to heal. I would like to thank all of my supporters and fellow officers throughout this process."

I posted in another thread a couple of months back about Wilson having garnered nearly $500,000 in donations for his legal defense and living expenses.

He doesn't need a legal defense and he received his normal pay while he was on leave, but the donation site has been re-opened and people are still contributing. It's also reported that he may have earned big bucks for the ABC interview with George Stephanopoulos, but the amount hasn't been confirmed. In any event, he's accumulated about 10 years worth of his normal salary in the few months since he shot Michael Brown.

I don't wish Wilson harm. We know that a lot of eyewitnesses lied and were backed into a corner with details from the autopsy report (that's confirmed in the GJ tetimony transcript). That worked in Wilson's favor. I hope Wilson told the truth. For some reason, I'm bothered by Wilson's testimony, in terms of how he characterized himself -- feeling like a 5-year-old up against Hulk Hogan and looking into the eyes of a demon. I know Michael Brown had more weight on him than Wilson did, and Brown was bullyish (at least sometimes, as evidenced in the liquor store surveillance tape). But, Darren Wilson was a 6'4" 200 pound trained police officer with a gun. I think it's a good idea that Wilson finds something else to do and maybe somewhere else to do it. He has no criminal record or dings on his police record -- the man has opportunities. I personally don't wanna hear or read his story again, but won't be surprised if he embarks upon the paid interview circuit and/or writes a book.

[Maggot]

I'm glad this craziness is ending hopefully now business owners can learn from this and protect their properties better from the cowards, criminals and hoodlums that devastated their city. Or get the hell out and find a more hospitable place. I would be pissed wondering if any customers walking in might have been involved in the ransacking and were just going in to see what damage they did. They wore bandanas over their faces as cowards do.

[Duchess]

Moments ago I watched a very short clip regarding Ferguson. It showed a boarded up market with OPEN OPEN OPEN written on the boards with one big section across the front stating, BLACK OWNED. I can't help but feel had a white person done the same thing a huge deal would have been made about the owner writing WHITE OWNED on the front of his business.

[Carsman]

[quote='Duchess' pid='381000' dateline='1417308667']
[size=medium][i]Darren Wilson has resigned from the Ferguson police force.

It's been all-but-confirmed for months that Wilson would resign from the force after the grand jury decision.

He's accumulated about 10 years worth of his normal salary in the few months since he shot Michael Brown.

Wilson's accumulated about 10 years worth of his normal salary. "That's some kinda severance pay".

He's gonna need it, he's a hot potato right now. Most likely it will be some time before his life settles down and eventually he may be able find work again.

[HairOfTheDog]

Takin' It to the Street.......and the Field

Glad the game didn't get cancelled yesterday and the event was peaceful.

Before Sunday's game against the Oakland Raiders, several Rams players—including receivers Tavon Austin and Kenny Britt—showed their support by doing the "hands up, don't shoot" signal that has become popular among protesters.



Public Statement of Disapproval from the St. Louis Police:
The St. Louis Police Officers Association is profoundly disappointed with the members of the St. Louis Rams football team who chose to ignore the mountains of evidence released from the St. Louis County Grand Jury this week and engage in a display that police officers around the nation found tasteless, offensive and inflammatory.

NFL Responses:
NFL Vice President of Communications Brian McCarthy said the league will not discipline the St. Louis Rams players who showed support for Ferguson on Sunday, per CNN's Rachel Nichols.

As well, the Rams organization will not fine the players, according to ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/22844...efore-game

[Midwest Spy]

I love this response to the players bullshit move from someone named Chris Herman on twitter:

"I'd remind the NFL and their players that it is not the violent thugs burning down buildings that buy their advertisers products. It's cops and the good people of St. Louis and other NFL towns that do."

So ignorant for these NFL players to fan the flames of racial divide and ignore the facts that have to come to light during the grand jury investigation.

I'd love to see those players punished.

Edit: again, not ONE prominent African-American has come forward to acknowledge the fact that Michael Brown attacked/provoked the officer and then ultimately died trying to get him a SECOND time.

[Duchess]

I'd love to see those players punished.

Why? What exactly did they do that they deserve to be punished for?

[Cutz]

If players can be punished for tweets, they can certainly be punished for attacking the righteousness of their city's police department. You're not supporting anyone with that gesture.

I drove past St. Louis on my way to Kentucky for Thanksgiving. Followed like 8 military Humvee's on part of the way there. I figured they were headed to Ferguson.

[HairOfTheDog]

Edit: again, not ONE prominent African-American has come forward to acknowledge the fact that Michael Brown attacked/provoked the officer and then ultimately died trying to get him a SECOND time.

It's not a given for everyone that Michael Brown attacked Wilson and then went back after him like a demonic Hulk Hogan after he was shot, MS.

Since McCulloch's press conference and the release of the Grand Jury transcript, I've read several pieces by legal experts who question the way the Grand Jury was conducted in the Darren Wilson case; believing that McCulloch wasn't acting as a prosecutor, but instead more as a defender. How the eyewitnesses were handled for both sides is also an area of concern for some.

Here's the statement from the National Bar Association:
The National Bar Association is questioning how the Grand Jury, considering the evidence before them, could reach the conclusion that Darren Wilson should not be indicted and tried for the shooting death of Michael Brown. National Bar Association President Pamela J. Meanes expresses her sincere disappointment with the outcome of the Grand Jury’s decision but has made it abundantly clear that the National Bar Association stands firm and will be calling on the U.S. Department of Justice to pursue federal charges against officer Darren Wilson. “We will not rest until Michael Brown and his family has justice” states Pamela Meanes, President of the National Bar Association.

In any case, Wilson wasn't acquitted or anything. The Grand Jury only decides whether there is probable cause to support charges based on evidence put before them. In reading the transcript, there was a lot of conflicting testimony regarding Michael Brown's motions that could equally fit the physical evidence.

[Duchess]

If players can be punished for tweets, they can certainly be punished for attacking the righteousness of their city's police department. You're not supporting anyone with that gesture.

It's bad enough that we have the word police, we now have the gesture police.