Johnny S. Clarke & Lisa Straub- young Ohio couple murdered

[NightOwl]

Edit to add: You notice he said "Lacey". Sounds like he didn't know Lisa much.

SS, I believe AG is talking about Maytee's niece, AG said she was screwing around with Mr. Z - he probably said that to tick Maytee off and anything is possible.

[NightOwl]

Edit to add: You notice he said "Lacey". Sounds like he didn't know Lisa much.

I believe Lacey is JC's cousin

Agreed!

[Methusala]

Jailhouse Snitch
Testimony
A Policy Review


http://tinyurl.com/6dyl4sj

Introduction .............................................. 1
Recommendations & Solutions........ 2
Grounds for Reform.............................. 3
The Legal Landscape .......................... 6
Benefits & Costs .................................... 7
Profiles of Injustice ................................ 8
Snapshots of Success ........................ 14
Voices of Support ................................ 15
Questions & Answers ........................ 16
A Model Policy...................................... 18
Statistics .................................................. 20
Literature ................................................ 21

[NightOwl]

The criminal mind blames others for their behaviour thus excusing themselves from the responsibility of their own actions. I think that makes it easier to be unreasonable.

Yes Zero, I do like this post very much, it's a good one!

[NightOwl]

Hi 'NightOwl'..

I agree that the perps knew the victims and that Duct Tape and plastic bags are not typical tools of an armed robber. But what if you had a record that sent you back to jail for carrying a gun and a simple traffic stop could be enough to get you caught? Duct Tape would not arouse suspicion and could be enough to do get you what you want.

Hi 'Zero'... Damn good point - great stuff!

[Freshbait78]

Jailhouse Snitch
Testimony
A Policy Review


http://tinyurl.com/6dyl4sj

Introduction .............................................. 1
Recommendations & Solutions........ 2
Grounds for Reform.............................. 3
The Legal Landscape .......................... 6
Benefits & Costs .................................... 7
Profiles of Injustice ................................ 8
Snapshots of Success ........................ 14
Voices of Support ................................ 15
Questions & Answers ........................ 16
A Model Policy...................................... 18
Statistics .................................................. 20
Literature ................................................ 21

Methusala, I do think (IMO) that a jailhouse snitch is much different then snitching on someone who know personally, have mutual friends with, or who lives in close proximity to you. If you're a jailhose snitch, you're probably snitching on someone you've not known for long (probably a cell mate) or have any affilliation with on the outside. However if you snitch on someone from your area, that is going to follow you & make life unsafe.

[Methusala]

On the other hand, the Prosecution can argue to the jury that:

"You' can't expect angels to be present when crimes are hatched in hell."

"We didn't pick the witnesses, the defendant did. We have to play the hand that was dealt to us."

"When you're investigating the devil, sinners are better witnesses than saints."

[Methusala]

Methusala, I do think (IMO) that a jailhouse snitch is much different then snitching on someone who know personally, have mutual friends with, or who lives in close proximity to you. If you're a jailhose snitch, you're probably snitching on someone you've not known for long (probably a cell mate) or have any affilliation with on the outside. However if you snitch on someone from your area, that is going to follow you & make life unsafe.

Yes, I agree with you 100% on the distinction you are making.

People who inform law enforcement of crimes and identify the perpetrators without any personal reward or gain to themselves (other than perhaps a reward publicly offered) should not even be called "snitches" but of course criminals will use the term anyway in order to express their across-the-board contempt for informers and informing.

Anything which interferes with their living a life of crime without getting caught and punished will be spoken of contemptuously.

[WolfHouse]

On the hand, the Prosecution can argue to the jury that:

"You' can't expect angels to be present when crimes are hatched in hell."

"We didn't pick the witnesses, the defendant did. We have to play the hand that was dealt to us."

"When you're investigating the devil, sinners are better witnesses than saints."

As always, marvelous post.

[ZEROSPHERES]

I'm no profiler, and don't know much about the criminal mind, but a sadistic torture killing doesn't seem like a spur of the moment kind of thing to me. I believe I'm in the minority here in thinking that these premeditated murders. I've heard of lots of people being killed in robberies and never heard of torture in one of those cases. I would think that most anyone who would be crazy enough to go into someone's home to rob them of drugs and/or money would certainly be the type of person of person to carry a hand gun. Taking the time and effort to torture two people is beyond the usual robbery getting out of hand.

The culture has changed alot over time but I think organized crime and gang culture is violent and vindictive and sadistic. IMO this type of murder fits right in with the mentality of the cultural group we are examining and I am not surprised at the nature of the crime as a departure from that "norm".

[ZEROSPHERES]

AG was right about one thing for sure a COWARD done this deed! A former Dayton Ohio Detective told the Toledo Blade Newspaper - "There's a lot of work involved in this. That's not random. That's targeted," Doyle Burke, a retired Dayton homicide detective, told the Toledo Blade. "The average burglar or robber is armed, but they're not walking around with duct tape and plastic bags."

That has led some to believe that the perpetrators knew the victims, and that this was personal. Slowly suffocating the couple to death would indicate they wanted Johnny and Lisa to die slowly -- and painfully.

I have to go along with this experienced Detective - to me he's right on the money! Someone planned this event here and wanted them tortured to death. We do not want to be tricked and tripped up - I don't think we should overlook anything here or anyone! I believe LE will find the right party!

Hi 'NightOwl'..

I agree that the perps knew the victims and that Duct Tape and plastic bags are not typical tools of an armed robber. But what if you had a record that sent you back to jail for carrying a gun and a simple traffic stop could be enough to get you caught? Duct Tape would not arouse suspicion and could be enough to do get you what you want.

soooo they did plan to kill them.?

IMO the intent was to kill, and send a message, and to benefit by reaping the spoils of their crime.

[d505]

Tw's facebook profile photo is funny. It's interesting how she wants to market herself.

[shitstorm]

Jailhouse Snitch
Testimony
A Policy Review


http://tinyurl.com/6dyl4sj

Introduction .............................................. 1
Recommendations & Solutions........ 2
Grounds for Reform.............................. 3
The Legal Landscape .......................... 6
Benefits & Costs .................................... 7
Profiles of Injustice ................................ 8
Snapshots of Success ........................ 14
Voices of Support ................................ 15
Questions & Answers ........................ 16
A Model Policy...................................... 18
Statistics .................................................. 20
Literature ................................................ 21

THANK YOU


In 1982, a 21-year-old cocktail waitress in Ada named Debra Sue Carter was raped and murdered, and for five years the police could not solve the crime. For reasons that were never clear, they suspected Ron Williamson and his friend Dennis Fritz. The two were finally arrested in 1987 and charged with capital murder.

With no physical evidence, the prosecution’s case was built on junk science and the testimony of jailhouse snitches and convicts. Dennis Fritz was found guilty and given a life sentence. Ron Williamson was sent to death row.

If you believe that in America you are innocent until proven guilty, this book will shock you. If you believe in the death penalty, this book will disturb you. If you believe the criminal justice system is fair, this book will infuriate you.

http://www.jgrisham.com/the-innocent-man/



Informants / Snitches


In more than 15% of cases of wrongful conviction overturned by DNA testing, an informant or jailhouse snitch testified against the defendant. Often, statements from people with incentives to testify – particularly incentives that are not disclosed to the jury – are the central evidence in convicting an innocent person.


People have been wrongfully convicted in cases in which snitches:


Have been paid to testify

Have testified in exchange for their release from prison.

Have testified in multiple distinct cases that they have evidence of guilt, through overhearing a confession or witnessing the crime.



DNA exonerations have shown that snitches lie on the stand. To many, this news isn’t a surprise. Testifying falsely in exchange for an incentive – either money or a sentence reduction – is often the last resort for a desperate inmate. For someone who is not in prison already, but who wants to avoid being charged with a crime, providing snitch testimony may be the only option.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/understa...rmants.php

[shitstorm]

Tw's facebook profile photo is funny. It's interesting how she wants to market herself.

I can't find her FB page anymore. Does she have a different one now?

[Just-Curious]

You kind of like him
LMAO
Is she serious?

[Teacher]

I have been reading this horrendous case from the beginning, but this is my first comment. NOTHING NEW so don't get your hopes up. Just a couple of statements I'd like to make:

I'm from a small rural community where drug dealers take extreme measures to set examples of snitches. One unfortunate boy got in trouble, and LE convinced him he would be doing much less time (if any) if he helped them. (I taught this young man at one point, and he had an extremely low I.Q.) Long story short, word spread quickly, he was taken by 2-3 other young men, brutally tortured and murdered. (shot numerous times (non-fatal), beaten severely, burned, and drug a great distance while being chained to a vehicle) He was under police surveillance at the time but the murderers evaded them. This was not just murder .... it was revenge and a warning at its worst. The young victim was 18. End of story - murderers are in prison.

Just last week another drug dealer drove by the home of the mother of a "snitch". Shot randomly into her home hitting her twice in the back. Fortunately, she survived. This was in broad daylight with witnesses outside their homes. Do you understand why it is extremely difficult for snitches to "snitch"? They are terrified and justly so.

Also I'd like to go way back in the posts to make a couple of comments about Maytee -

1. People questioned why no tears at one time right after this happened. One possible explanation I can give is what I experienced during a very beloved one's battle with cancer. The last couple of weeks of his life, I was prescribed Zoloft since I was out of my mind with grief and couldn't accept what was happening. I did not shed one tear at his funeral and, of course, people were surprised because they knew how dearly I loved this person. Zoloft prevented tears from falling - doctor said this is very common. Could be Maytee was on something similar. Just a thought.

2. Someone else questioned the sunglasses. I, too, can relate to that. I suffer from optic migraines (occasionally) and any type of light causes excruciating pain (plus numerous zig-zag patterns of brightly neon-colored lights which interfere with one's sight). Being surrounded by television lights would greatly enhance this problem. Just a thought.

[Freshbait78]

I have been reading this horrendous case from the beginning, but this is my first comment. NOTHING NEW so don't get your hopes up.

I like you Teacher, I saw you over in the newbies thread awhile ago, glad you decided to post I have very fond memories & a great deal of respect for 95% of the teachers I've ever had. Anyway I completely agree with you on the snitches thing & the optical migraines. I also have them & get the colored zig zag lines which make it nearly impossible to focus on anything. I definatly could not imagine having to do a TV interview while having a optical migraine, as I usually have to lay down with my eyes closed in a dark room for ¹⁄₂ hour or more, if that was the issue with Maytee then I understand it completely.

[NightOwl]

Tw's facebook profile photo is funny. It's interesting how she wants to market herself.

I can't find her FB page anymore. Does she have a different one now?

SS, try going to AG first then click on TW there maybe - it is there.

[shitstorm]

You kind of like him
LMAO
Is she serious?

You know what? You're right. I've been reading this shit for too long. At this point I could probably read a FB exchange between two members of the Taliban and think one sounded more reasonable than the other!

Christ on a bike, we've got a nuclear meltdown in Japan - a very serious crisis threatening millions of people - and I'm all up in what amounts to Jerry Springer land.

Ahhhhhhh!

[kitty1]

I have a flashback to Maytee and Lisa's Liar Uncle - she called him a Liar she mentioned how we wouldn't believe the letter she received from him or maybe it was a card, anyway I've been thinking on and off about that statement - my opinion is, the decent thing for the man to do would be send a note - just stating "Sorry for your Loss" - it sure doesn't sound like it, and Maytee apparently was upset with this note, it hurt the woman I think , just like the Police Station episode and his uncalled for remarks. Anyone else been wondering like me? I Pray for Maytee, LE will get the beast/s.

I don't believe that Lisa's uncle is a liar. I believe the letter was written after Maytee tried to place the blame at Lisa's feet. She tried to take Johnny and his friends and/or associates out of the equation. She claims the uncle was void of any emotion at the police station. Maytee has her way of grieving and he is entitled to his own way as well. Maytee claims that there was a safe because she states that Lisa's ex (BD) broke into the safe and stole money. They may have had a safe but that doesn't mean they had one at the time of the murders. She implied that she was the one that informed the uncle of his niece's death. The uncle found out when watching the early edition of the local news. The uncle is the Fire Chief and well respected in his community. It is uncharacteristic for him to have acted inappropiately at the police station. I think Maytee is in denial (understandably) that her son's past history or any of his friends/associates could have been a facter on that dreadful night. I believe she is in denial, she is angry and she is in pain and experiencing guilt. These are three of the 5 steps of the grieving process. Grieving tends to be unpredictable like a roller coaster ride. She is a victim and she is defensive. She wants to protect her son's name. I think that lashing out, venting on Facebook and casting a negative light on others makes her feel better in some way. I believe her behavior is a manifestation of her guilt, pain and anger.