Should citizens have to pay to educate illegals?

[Adub]

The funding for special ed and for esl students benefits all students.

[Cracker]

The funding for special ed and for esl students benefits all students.

How do you figure? Because that is bullshit. It benefits very few students and places a burden on the system. It drags down the educational attainment of every child that has to deal with constant interruptions and lowered expectations.

You are going to need to prove this point, not just state it.

[Adub]

One example is that the funding pays for computers and other learning materials that all students benefit from. The school districts aren't oblivious to the fact that they can use special funding to get the things they need.

[Cracker]

One example is that the funding pays for computers and other learning materials that all students benefit from. The school districts aren't oblivious to the fact that they can use special funding to get the things they need.

That isn't true. ESEP equipment is used for ESEP only. It is called assistive technology and IS NOT for all students to use.

It is so fucking against the law to misappropriate funding meant for special education.

You are misinformed.

[Adub]

Not when the students are mainstreamed for a portion of the school day. The mainstream teacher does have input as to what his or her needs are. And they can request learning materials for the classroom that inevitably are used by all students. That is just the way it is. I am not misinformed.

[Cracker]

Sorry, not a fan of mainstreaming, as you can tell.

Instead of holding special education teachers responsible for educating kids with special needs, they stuffed them all into classrooms with "real" teachers. They said it would help kids with special needs socially. They forgot to mention how it would affect my little one having to watch a crazy fucking kid stab the Kindergarten teacher or kick her when she was 8 months pregnant. They also forgot to check to see if it was harming the education of the other 90% of the student body. Because nobody gives a shit about a good student that behaves in class. There is no special funding for raising your kids right and reading to them so they can read someday, and for not being undereducated at home and raising idiots. What about those kids?

Kids with mild learning disabilities belong in regular classrooms with a little added support. Chilren with retardation, emotional/behavior disorders and other severe disabilities don't. As most retardation and emotional/behavior disorders are the result of bad parenting, I don't feel wrong saying that.

Autism is a grey area. High-functioning kids that don't interrupt education should be mainstreamed, kids with Autism that interrupt instruction need their own classroom.

If you have special needs, you need help. Not an audience. I don't want my child thinking bad behavior and not doing your work and still passing is OK. Because it isn't.

[Cracker]

Not when the students are mainstreamed for a portion of the school day. The mainstream teacher does have input as to what his or her needs are. And they can request learning materials for the classroom that inevitably are used by all students. That is just the way it is. I am not misinformed.

You ARE misinformed. I know for a FACT that is NOT how it works. Least Restrictive Environment has turned into all day with NCLB.

My child doesn't need reduced-level materials, and it pisses me off that my child isn't challenged and has to waste time on stuff that is below their level.

It is AGAINST THE LAW to use accommodations FOR ALL CHILDREN in a regular classroom. Somebody is breaking the law in your situation.

[Cracker]

As you can see, parents of special needs children think they know what is best for all students.

As a parent of smart kids, even the stupid one got all A's somehow (we were amazed), it angers me that you would want my child to achieve less, at a lower level, so your child can feel comfortable.

What is wrong with teaching a child in a separate room where they can get what they need? Why is it right to hold the other kids back (that is what it amounts to)? THAT is why America is falling behind. If you pull up testing scores from around the country, you will see it is the ESEP population, black male students, and Economically Disadvantaged students that are driving policy because they can't/won't keep up with their peers. It harms my child. That is wrong.

[Cracker]

(Cracker switched careers for a reason. I know of what I speak.)

[Adub]

It is AGAINST THE LAW to use accommodations FOR ALL CHILDREN in a regular classroom. Somebody is breaking the law in your situation.

An accommodation is not limited to physical, material things. It is just an added allowance. Like more time to take a test. Or an emphasis on using visual learning aides in addition to oral instruction. So a visual learning aide could be manipulatives for math. Do you think that the non-special students are not going to be allowed to use the manipulatives? Of course they are. And nothing wrong with it. The same for classroom computers. And dictionaries. And rulers. And alphabet tiles. Etc..

[ZEROSPHERES]

If you pull up testing scores from around the country, you will see it is the ESEP population, black male students, and Economically Disadvantaged students that are driving policy because they can't/won't keep up with their peers. It harms my child. That is wrong.

This is a True statement and I like you for saying it. Also the parents of that child may foster that behaviour.

[Cracker]

I love kids. I like kids waaaaaay better than most adults. I am a kid person (all colors and makes of kids, no matter to Cracker). Because I love kids, I will say this:

We are fucking over 60% of the children in America.

10 - 15% of kids will do well, no matter what. They will ignore, do their own thing, and rise above. Those are the valedictorians and full-ride scholarship kids. They sneak in questions when class is over or email teachers from home if they don't get their fair share of time in the classroom. They will always be OK.

10-20% of kids will never do well, no matter what. Someone at home fucked them up and they won't be able to see it until they have hit adulthood. Some will have an ephiphany, a moment of clarity, and will change their own life. Most won't. Some aren't able to because the odds are stacked against them, and some just can't because of circumstances beyond their control. Instead of helping these kids by providing vocational education (let's face it, not everybody is going to college), we cut almost ALL vocational funding to pay to mainstream these kids.

60% of kids are in the middle. They need a little help in order to reach their full potential. Because they are placed in classrooms with the lower level kids, they don't get the attention and help they need. Instead of dragging these kids up and making them great, we lower the expectations of them and ignore them in favor of the low kids. We are cheating them out of their education. These kids can go either way. Good kids will do OK, albeit they will be less than they could have been, while kids that COULD have been helped are lost in the shuffle while we cater to the kids that will NEVER achieve because they can't or won't.

Nobody wants to talk about it. It isn't PC.

The weak inherited the Earth and the kids in the middle got fucked over in the process. We spend 60-70% of school monies on the lowest 20%.

How dare anyone suggest using lower-level materials with them helps them in any way. That is a fucking lie. Parents of the minority/ED/ESEP kids who forced NCLB legislation should have their asses kicked. It ruined education and chased away a bunch of educators who actually gave a shit. The day they started giving kids who do NO WORK 60%-70% in the gradebook is the day education in this country died.

Colleges that serve the higher kids have graduation rates in the 80^th percentile. Colleges that have to take all kids have graduation rates in the 30-40% range. THAT is where your tax money goes. JSYK.

[Cracker]

It is AGAINST THE LAW to use accommodations FOR ALL CHILDREN in a regular classroom. Somebody is breaking the law in your situation.

An accommodation is not limited to physical, material things. It is just an added allowance. Like more time to take a test. Or an emphasis on using visual learning aides in addition to oral instruction. So a visual learning aide could be manipulatives for math. Do you think that the non-special students are not going to be allowed to use the manipulatives? Of course they are. And nothing wrong with it. The same for classroom computers. And dictionaries. And rulers. And alphabet tiles. Etc..

Special education budgets do NOT pay for supplies like you listed for all students. THAT is misappropriation and is ILLEGAL. You cannot buy a class set of materials to be used for regular kids with that money. Money for supplies like that come from grade level or department budgets. You can only purchase what is to be used by particular students that have special needs. I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but you better check federal laws. Your school, if caught doing that, would lose all federal monies and be forced to pay fines.

Regular ed kids are NOT allowed to use computers purchased for special populations. It is assistive technology and comes from a different budget and is NOT intended to be used in that way.

Any learning materials that are for special populations are on average two grade levels behind what a regular class should be studying. Nobody better EVER use that crap with my kids.

My kid is bored. My older kids spent countless hours helping teachers grade papers or helping the other kids. As a result, they were cheated.

You should be ashamed for being blind to what is happening to the other kids in the classroom so a few can feel better about their day.

[Cracker]

I gave up crusading about education. It is a lost cause. I make sure mine get what they need at home. I don't count on the special interest groups to make sure my child is fine, because they don't give a shit. Even if you prove the special interest groups are harming most of the other kids, they give some bucolic answer that negates the rights of all children to reach their full potential. Regular kids don't matter anymore.

Regular adults don't either.

[Cracker]

OSCEOLA COUNTY, Fla. -- Deputies in Osceola County arrested a 13-year-old boy who they said put one of his prescription pills in his teacher’s drink.
It happened during first period, sixth grade language arts class on Monday at Discovery Intermediate School when Ortiz's teacher went to the restroom. She came back and drank a cup of coffee. She went home sick, but it wasn't until the rumors started that she realized she'd been drugged, officials said.
After speaking with several students in the teacher's class, school officials and the school resource officer confirmed that Jose Ernesto Ortiz had put one of his prescribed medication pills, Clonidine, a blood pressure medication, in the teacher's drink, according to deputies.
"I mean putting a pill in a teacher's glass. That's not right," said student Roberto Vasquez.
Deputies interviewed Ortiz who cooperated with the investigation. He admitted to detectives that he put one of his pills, which he takes to help him sleep at night, in the teacher's drink because she yelled at him in class.
"He obviously didn't know or couldn't know the consequences, this was a dangerous act, " said Twis Lizasuain of the Osceola Sheriff's Office.
The Osceola County Sheriff's Office said the prescription drug was Clonidine. It relaxes the blood vessels. In addition to treating hypertension, the drug has been used as treatment for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.
But the 13-year-old accused of drugging his teacher told an investigator that he "takes the pills to go to sleep and he wanted her to go to sleep."
Based on the information, Ortiz was charged with poison of food with the intent to injure and was booked into the Osceola County Juvenile Detention Center with no bond.
A hearing will determine when Ortiz gets out and under what conditions. Because of privacy issues, the school would not comment on any action it could take.

[username]

We are fucking over 60% of the children in America.

10 - 15% of kids will do well, no matter what. They will ignore, do their own thing, and rise above. Those are the valedictorians and full-ride scholarship kids. They sneak in questions when class is over or email teachers from home if they don't get their fair share of time in the classroom. They will always be OK.

10-20% of kids will never do well, no matter what. Someone at home fucked them up and they won't be able to see it until they have hit adulthood. Some will have an ephiphany, a moment of clarity, and will change their own life. Most won't. Some aren't able to because the odds are stacked against them, and some just can't because of circumstances beyond their control. Instead of helping these kids by providing vocational education (let's face it, not everybody is going to college), we cut almost ALL vocational funding to pay to mainstream these kids.

60% of kids are in the middle. They need a little help in order to reach their full potential. Because they are placed in classrooms with the lower level kids, they don't get the attention and help they need. Instead of dragging these kids up and making them great, we lower the expectations of them and ignore them in favor of the low kids. We are cheating them out of their education. These kids can go either way. Good kids will do OK, albeit they will be less than they could have been, while kids that COULD have been helped are lost in the shuffle while we cater to the kids that will NEVER achieve because they can't or won't.

I agree. I see it all the time. My daughter is in GATE. My son isn't so he's in a "regular" classroom (except they're both in advanced math classes, thank God). He's getting straight A's with almost zero effort. The difference in the course material, homework expectations etc. between GATE and my son's class is absurd. It shouldn't be either GATE or a dumbed down class. There ought to be a middle ground. Level the classrooms.

[IMaDick]

Classrooms that are not divided by achievement will always be a mistake, not every kid progresses as fast as others to hold the fast ones back to protect the feelings of the slow is completely wrong at all levels.

I know when I was in grade school we had classroom packets for some subjects that would allow for the fast the medium and slow kids to advance at their own rate.

[Cynical Ninja]

And who is to blame for all the problems in US education according to quacker.

(drumroll.............)

The black male! Ta dah!

What a shocking conclusion I did not anticipate that for one moment.

[Duchess]

"He obviously didn't know or couldn't know the consequences, this was a dangerous act, " said Twis Lizasuain of the Osceola Sheriff's Office.

Bullshit. That's exactly why he did it, he hoped for it to have a negative reaction on his teacher & I am astounded that someone from the sheriff's office, of all places, would say that.

[Cracker]

"He obviously didn't know or couldn't know the consequences, this was a dangerous act, " said Twis Lizasuain of the Osceola Sheriff's Office.

Bullshit. That's exactly why he did it, he hoped for it to have a negative reaction on his teacher & I am astounded that someone from the sheriff's office, of all places, would say that.

It's a great example of the free pass I was talking about. The kid was medicated, so he is ESEP/504 automatically so he can't be held responsible. (What fucking school let a kid have medication? Here you can be expelled for having a Tylenol [if you are a regular kid].)

Who do you think the kids are that shoot up schools?