Did the ancients know more than we do?

[cladking]

Clad, i think you'll like this article--->

Seen for the first time in centuries, a 1,500-year-old tomb comes to light via a tiny camera lowered into a Maya pyramid at Mexico's Palenque archaeological site in April. The intact, blood-red funeral chamber offers insight into the ancient city's early history, experts say.


link:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...9news-tomb

Very interesting.

What all these sites seem to have in common is water. Even Machu Pichu has flowing water on top even today.

[cladking]

Sand is heavier than water in just about all of its forms, wet dry packed, loose, it doesn't matter if you wanted to minimize the container to achieve the greatest amount of lift by volume sand would make more sense.

as for hauling sand to use it would be much more labor intensive water flows on its own once the route is built, and to release it just pull the plug, and it disappears, sand on the other hand would need to be moved a second time doubling the handling time and labor.

water could also be recycled and used in other ways if they so desired, sand is always just sand.

In my mind water makes way more sense even though more of it would be required to do the same job as sand.

Yes. Exactly.

Sand could work and it would be far easier to pass sand straight up the side and use it in counterweights than it would be to build ramps and drag stones up them. Sand is unwieldy to use. It seems unlikely anyone would wake up one day and say "hey, let's pass sand up in buckets for ballast and see how big a pile we can make".

If I'm right then there just wan't much work for humans in building the great pyramids. The builders said over and over that to make a stairway to heaven that they needed boats, ropes, and ladders and that the Gods did all the real work. "The dead king ascends to heaven, permanent like the earth".


Rather than being pumped up the water just naturally sprayed to 80' where it was caught by a device the builders called the Mehet Weret Cow. Stones wwere lifted straight up to 80' and then Imhotep shortened the ropes so they could go higher. The top stones had to be lifted several times to the top.

[Cracker]

clad, I get the feeling your interest is more attuned to understanding the ancient texts. Is that a correct assumption? From what I read, you feel certain that water counterbalances were used to hoist the great stones, but your real work is making sense of the translations that are available.

If it is so, the single greatest idea that came from that era is "As above, so below." (total misquote, you will know the correct form) What do you think this means? Is it figurative or literal?

How did they cut the stones? Was it with a large wheel saw or did they split it along the cleavage?

[IMaDick]

Face value is always a good place to start, but only if the translation is accurate.

If you believe the emerald tablet to actually be from 3000 BC then it refers to that which is created on earth and by the hand of man is from above, the Gods have seen to the details and nothing is created by mans hands but that which the gods have ordained.

or else it's a modern hoax with it's origins in the free masons and christianity.

Take your pick the opinions are just about equally divided.

[Middle Finger]

I wish the ancients knew more about germs, weather, and evolution so we wouldn't be so fractured into divisive areas of religious retardation today.

[Cracker]

I wish the ancients knew more about germs, weather, and evolution so we wouldn't be so fractured into divisive areas of religious retardation today.

Word.

[cladking]

clad, I get the feeling your interest is more attuned to understanding the ancient texts. Is that a correct assumption? From what I read, you feel certain that water counterbalances were used to hoist the great stones, but your real work is making sense of the translations that are available.

If it is so, the single greatest idea that came from that era is "As above, so below." (total misquote, you will know the correct form) What do you think this means? Is it figurative or literal?

How did they cut the stones? Was it with a large wheel saw or did they split it along the cleavage?

Very perceptive and it ties in well with the next post and the one by Middle Finger too.

My initial interest was strictly in finding how the Great Pyramid was built but I soon came to realize that it used the exact same method as all the great pyramids. Whatever system was used was improved and tweeked until G1 was its culmination.

A couple years into the project an Egytologists arrogantly informed me that I couldn't possibly understand how they were built without understanding the people and suggested I get familiar with the Pyramid Texts. He was wrong since the PT, much to my surprise, simply confirmed everything I already knew and had a wealth of information on how to proceed with the investigation. I find the people hugely intereting but truth to tell they are just like us; idiots. They just had a different way of thinking and talking that was more efficient than ours. Unlike us they knew they were stupid and ignorant which gave them great power far beyond what we have today. It gave them the ability to use all their knowledge all the time. It made maximum use not only of knowledge but intelligence as well.

I doubt there will ever be any interest in going back to the old way of thinking but perhaps some of it can be modified to fit in with current thought. I think at the very least we might see more interest in generalism if I'm right. The odds of my being right are up around 70% at this point. This refers only to the overall picture, of course, and not the specifics. If the overall picture is right then a lot of the specifics are as well.

I haven't much investigated the stone work beyond learning that the drill was invented in 3500 BC (600 years before the 1^st great pyramid) and that it was possible to drill holes in the earth.

Next post I'll address your other point.

[cladking]

Face value is always a good place to start, but only if the translation is accurate.

If you believe the emerald tablet to actually be from 3000 BC then it refers to that which is created on earth and by the hand of man is from above, the Gods have seen to the details and nothing is created by mans hands but that which the gods have ordained.

or else it's a modern hoax with it's origins in the free masons and christianity.

Take your pick the opinions are just about equally divided.

Hang on to your hats, you'll be floored by this.

The earliest known origin for the Emerald Tablets is from the Caliphate al MaMuum who just happened to be the first guy to break into the Great Pyramid!!! (There's another strange coincidence too)

To bring everyone up to date, the Emerald Tablets are actually two distinct things. One is a fascinating modern (~1926) forgery written by a most highly perceptive individual trained in physics.

The other probably had an ancient Egyptian origin but came from a tertiary or secondary source because the ancient writing was not decipherable when it came to light in the 9^th century AD.

0) When I entered into the cave, I received the tablet zaradi, which was inscribed, from between the hands of Hermes, in which I discovered these words:

Another Arabic Version (from the German of Ruska, translated by 'Anonymous').


1) True, without falsehood, certain, most certain.

2) What is above is like what is below, and what is below is like that which is above. To make the miracle of the one thing.

3) And as all things were made from contemplation of one, so all things were born from one adaptation.

4) Its father is the Sun, its mother is the Moon.

5) The wind carried it in its womb, the earth breast fed it.

6) It is the father of all 'works of wonder' (Telesmi) in the world.

6a) Its power is complete (integra).

7) If cast to (turned towards- versa fuerit) earth,

7a) it will separate earth from fire, the subtile from the gross.

8) With great capacity it ascends from earth to heaven. Again it descends to earth, and takes back the power of the above and the below.

9) Thus you will receive the glory of the distinctiveness of the world. All obscurity will flee from you. 10) This is the whole most strong strength of all strength, for it overcomes all subtle things, and penetrates all

solid things. 11a) Thus was the world created. 12) From this comes marvelous adaptions of which this is the proceedure. 13) Therefore I am called Hermes, because I have three parts of the wisdom of the whole world. 14) And complete is what I had to say about the work of the Sun, from the book of Galieni Alfachimi. [From Latin in Steele

http://www.the-book-of-thoth.com/content-157.html

I'd draw your attention to #8. This is the way the ancients described a corrollary Newton's third law of motion; that a falling object retains the power imparted to it when it was lifted initially.

If you substitute the word "geyser" everywhere the word "it" appears then this makes perfect sense when viewed through the lens of ancient science. Hermes was the Greek Atum/ Osiris born in a cave whose name means pillar. Atum's broadhall was a cave and the ancient name for Giza (Rosteau) meant mouth of caves. The moon represented moisture and gasses like CO2 were associated with the sun. The Egyptians called CO2 "I[]t-wt.t" which probably translates as "gas (of) yeast". When the carbonated water was disturbed the minerals precipitated creating "earth" and the CO2 dissipated. The precipitate naturally formed a conical stone which the Egyptians called the "beb ben". This was the "horrible face" on the primeval mound which was also precipitate from the geyser. The aquifer was capped with sandstone which dissolved and carried sand with the water. The siderite binder was prevalent in the water at the beginning of the year as was some copper suphate which is a powerful emetic.

There is probably a real referent for the story of the tower of babel and it is this which has caused the great confusion. It was a new way of thinking that causes the meaning of ancient ideas to be so opaque.

[Cracker]

They just had a different way of thinking and talking that was more efficient than ours. Unlike us they knew they were stupid and ignorant which gave them great power far beyond what we have today. It gave them the ability to use all their knowledge all the time. It made maximum use not only of knowledge but intelligence as well.

I doubt there will ever be any interest in going back to the old way of thinking but perhaps some of it can be modified to fit in with current thought. I think at the very least we might see more interest in generalism if I'm right.

We have a larger body of knowledge (thinking of medical, technological, mathematical, scientific knowledge) today than the ancients. I'm not sure we can be generalists and still function as a society. Somebody has to know how operate/program/build/repair all of our technology. I can't even keep up with mobile device technology.

Our schools are based on the idea that citizens need a basic grasp of a lump of knowledge in order to function successfully in our culture. We can't even get our young to stay in free school long enough to get that basic knowledge (graduation rates are really around 50% if you start counting at elementary school levels, maybe lower). Are you saying we don't even need that much knowledge?

I would agree we have a lot to learn in the modern era, but we can't count on society to instill even the most basic ideas into their offspring. Many of our adults are too enthralled with sex, drink, and drugs to do what they are supposed to do. Many members of the newest generation aren't invested in our society, don't know the history, and are not concerned with general societal norms of behavior enough to be trusted to pass those traits on.

We are a nation without a strong culture. Too many slackers have learned to survive on other people's forced charity. The most basic idea among human cultures is to produce what you consume. When you are bred to produce nothing and consume whatever you can lay your hands on at the time, society as a whole suffers. That is where we are.

[cladking]

I wish the ancients knew more about germs, weather, and evolution so we wouldn't be so fractured into divisive areas of religious retardation today.

Word.

I hardly think it was a paradise for the average man in ancient Egypt but when the economy collapsed I think the bad guys took over and they've essentially been running the world ever since. Government became a means to power as did religion. There was no such thing as modern religions (the business of faith) before 1800 BC. What we think was religion was actually primitive science founded on obsevation and logic. Most of these sciences had aspects of magic and mysticism but this was not very prevalent in Egypt. We mistranslate and misunderstand what they really believed. For example, the Egyptians mention at least 28 different types of sceptres in the surviving literature and scholars take these to be objects of magical power wielded by men. In actuality the word we take as "sceptre" would more correctly be translated as "machine part". It was machines that had great power not magic. Imhotep was the "Chief of Observers" not the "Chief of Seers".

Religion promises immortality in exchange for money today. Egyptian science promised an entity to watch over the people forever in exchange to helping the (Gods) (Neters) (Natures) build a pyramid today. Egyptian science didn't expect people to take anything on faith. It rewarded invention by awarding pyramid jobs to people from your city in perpetuity. For instance the guy who discovered that natron added to the geyser caused an eruption was from Chemmis so all future jobs concerning "Chemmistry" were awarded to people from this city.

[cladking]

They just had a different way of thinking and talking that was more efficient than ours. Unlike us they knew they were stupid and ignorant which gave them great power far beyond what we have today. It gave them the ability to use all their knowledge all the time. It made maximum use not only of knowledge but intelligence as well.

I doubt there will ever be any interest in going back to the old way of thinking but perhaps some of it can be modified to fit in with current thought. I think at the very least we might see more interest in generalism if I'm right.

We have a larger body of knowledge (thinking of medical, technological, mathematical, scientific knowledge) today than the ancients. I'm not sure we can be generalists and still function as a society. Somebody has to know how operate/program/build/repair all of our technology. I can't even keep up with mobile device technology.

Our schools are based on the idea that citizens need a basic grasp of a lump of knowledge in order to function successfully in our culture. We can't even get our young to stay in free school long enough to get that basic knowledge (graduation rates are really around 50% if you start counting at elementary school levels, maybe lower). Are you saying we don't even need that much knowledge?

I would agree we have a lot to learn in the modern era, but we can't count on society to instill even the most basic ideas into their offspring. Many of our adults are too enthralled with sex, drink, and drugs to do what they are supposed to do. Many members of the newest generation aren't invested in our society, don't know the history, and are not concerned with general societal norms of behavior enough to be trusted to pass those traits on.

We are a nation without a strong culture. Too many slackers have learned to survive on other people's forced charity. The most basic idea among human cultures is to produce what you consume. When you are bred to produce nothing and consume whatever you can lay your hands on at the time, society as a whole suffers. That is where we are.

I believe the problem of the modern age goes back to August of 1899 when Freud thought it would be a good idea to do his very beautiful sister in law. He spend a career intellectualizing this event and part of his work was misinterpreted to mean that people have a subconscious mind that directs their actions. This silly belief has people thinking no one is responsible for his actions much less outcomes. If you let a whole city be destroyed by not paying attention then you can even be reelected mayor. This belief that we aren't responsible allowed some 50,000,000 murders in the last century and allows our schools to not teach. We spend vast sums of money to teach children who are eager to learn to hate learning.

Don't get me started on modern superstitions. We are probably the most superstitious people who have ever walked the earth and this is pretty bad since the bar is set very high. Humans are very prone to superstition naturally and it is our greatest plague and weakness. If we survive this age it will take a minor miracle. If we survive this age it will probably be only because we are not so powerful as we believe we are.

We'll have to have specialists until machine intelligence arises. Specialists are of critical importance in almost all fields. The problem isn't so much too many specialists so much as it is too few (as in no) generalists. No one knows how a factory/ business operates because everyone in the firm is a specialist and then they wonder why such munufactured shit as Frigidaire refrigerators get made. And they can't even spell it right since they have a Greek "delta" instead of an "A" in the name. This is somehow appropriate since delta is used to mean change in mathematics and they have successfully changed "frigid" to "ire" with their shit. It's unlikely to stay frigid for very long though. Hearsay is this crap lasts a few years then you buy new shit.

Since no one is trained in all the aspects of making and selling things one arm of a company is always working at cross purposes to the others.

Schools need to actually teach generalism on a college level. It will first need to be invented but its attributes and defining characteristics seem fairly apparent. A lot of individuals would thrive in such a structure and there is a critical need for it in society.

[Cracker]

Religion promises immortality in exchange for money today. Egyptian science promised an entity to watch over the people forever in exchange to helping the (Gods) (Neters) (Natures) build a pyramid today. Egyptian science didn't expect people to take anything on faith. It rewarded invention by awarding pyramid jobs to people from your city in perpetuity. For instance the guy who discovered that natron added to the geyser caused an eruption was from Chemmis so all future jobs concerning "Chemmistry" were awarded to people from this city.

In a nutshell, you are saying all cars SHOULD be made in Detroit?

Very interesting, btw.

[cladking]

How did they cut the stones? Was it with a large wheel saw or did they split it along the cleavage?

Set was the part of the geyer under the ground.

I've not yet deduced or determined how he was employed to operate the Great Saw Palace. ...But he was.

626d. they put for thee thine enemy under thee.
627a. Carry thou (him who is) greater than thou, said they to him, in thy name of "He of the Great Saw Palace."

There are a few possibilities but no apparent clues.

[cladking]

Religion promises immortality in exchange for money today. Egyptian science promised an entity to watch over the people forever in exchange to helping the (Gods) (Neters) (Natures) build a pyramid today. Egyptian science didn't expect people to take anything on faith. It rewarded invention by awarding pyramid jobs to people from your city in perpetuity. For instance the guy who discovered that natron added to the geyser caused an eruption was from Chemmis so all future jobs concerning "Chemmistry" were awarded to people from this city.

In a nutshell, you are saying all cars SHOULD be made in Detroit?

Very interesting, btw.

Well...

...If we did it like the Egyptians then anyone who helped the Gods illuminate the car would be from Port Huron where Edison grew up. Anyone who worked assembly would be from Detroit. In fact the car has so many inventors there might be more cities represented than the number of car factories or machines to make them.

[Lady Cop]

Clad, when i was a little girl i was fixated on ancient Egyptian lore and legends and history. it was so mystical and spooky on another level. i still like to read about their beliefs. when 'Cleopatra' came to the movies i was the first one in line! it was a long phase, followed by other obsessions.
so i enjoy reading your posts.

[Lady Cop]

WOW! i can't wait to see pictures of the treasure (none online yet).

NEW DELHI — Precious stones, jewelry, gold and silver estimated to be worth several BILLION dollars have been found in the secret underground vaults of an ancient temple in southern India, a temple official said Saturday.

An 18-foot-long necklace, 536 kilograms (1,179.2 pounds) of 18^th century gold coins, diamond-studded plates, rubies and emeralds were found in the vaults of the Sri Padmanabhaswamy temple in Thiruvananthapuram, the capital of Kerala state, the Hindustan Times reported.

The vaults were opened after the Supreme Court ordered the state government to take over the temple’s assets from a trust controlled by the royal family of Travancore.

A seven-member, court-appointed panel is conducting an inventory of the vaults.

The temple has six underground chambers, of which two are opened daily, and two twice a year. The two chambers opened on Thursday and Friday were last looked at about 130 years ago, the temple’s executive officer VK Harikumar said.

The treasure recovered so far could be worth 500 billion rupees ($11 billion), the Hindustan Times quoted sources as saying.

[cladking]

Clad, when i was a little girl i was fixated on ancient Egyptian lore and legends and history. it was so mystical and spooky on another level. i still like to read about their beliefs. when 'Cleopatra' came to the movies i was the first one in line! it was a long phase, followed by other obsessions.
so i enjoy reading your posts.

I know fairly little about the later people and they are much better understood by egyptologists than the ancients. My obsession is new, a mere 5 years now.

By the time of Cleopatra very little about the pyramid building age was remembered. The priests probably could have put it all together if they worked on it but many key ideas were lost and they couldn't read the ancient writings. They related what they did know to the Greeks who butchered the history and adopted much of it as their own. Manetho was probably the last man who might have understood pyramid building but it appears he wrote very little on the subject and all of his important writings are utterly lost except a few quotes from other authors and his kings list.

[cladking]

I think I found some more.

Here's another line from the PT which seems to have become clear in light
of this new understanding.

449a. N. knows him, knows his name. Nḥi is, his name, Nḥi lord of the year is his name;
449b. he with the warrior's arm, Horus who is over the śhd.w of heaven, who causes Rē‘ to live every day.
450a. He will rebuild N.; he will cause N. to live every day.

"Nḥi" is Lord of the Year who is associated with "Nḥḥ"; the God of Eternity.
It is the water which rebuilds the dead king (N) that he might live every day.

774a. O N., thy water belongs to thee, thy abundance belongs to thee,
774b. thy natron belongs to thee, (all) which is brought to thee by thy brother, Nḫḫ.

Remember Mercer translated the verb for geyser as "abundance". It should read;

774a. O N., thy water belongs to thee, thy geyser (effects) belongs to thee,
774b. thy natron belongs to thee, which is brought to thee by thy brother, Nḫḫ. (forever)

Natron assures the water is forever. Nḥi is its measure.

If a measurement was so important to the Egyptians that they named years after
it then does it not stand to reason that the concept would appear in the Pyramid
Texts.

[Middle Finger]

I wish the ancients knew more about germs, weather, and evolution so we wouldn't be so fractured into divisive areas of religious retardation today.

Word.

I hardly think it was a paradise for the average man in ancient Egypt but when the economy collapsed I think the bad guys took over and they've essentially been running the world ever since. Government became a means to power as did religion. There was no such thing as modern religions (the business of faith) before 1800 BC. What we think was religion was actually primitive science founded on obsevation and logic. Most of these sciences had aspects of magic and mysticism but this was not very prevalent in Egypt. We mistranslate and misunderstand what they really believed. For example, the Egyptians mention at least 28 different types of sceptres in the surviving literature and scholars take these to be objects of magical power wielded by men. In actuality the word we take as "sceptre" would more correctly be translated as "machine part". It was machines that had great power not magic. Imhotep was the "Chief of Observers" not the "Chief of Seers".

Religion promises immortality in exchange for money today. Egyptian science promised an entity to watch over the people forever in exchange to helping the (Gods) (Neters) (Natures) build a pyramid today. Egyptian science didn't expect people to take anything on faith. It rewarded invention by awarding pyramid jobs to people from your city in perpetuity. For instance the guy who discovered that natron added to the geyser caused an eruption was from Chemmis so all future jobs concerning "Chemmistry" were awarded to people from this city.

Very interesting info as usual, bud!

[Cracker]

clad would be a fun go-have-a-beer-and-talk date. He knows enough to be interesting for several hours. And he could draw pictures on cocktail napkins so I could understand him better. clad is Mock's Joseph Campbell of the Nile.

On this page, the hieroglyphs look like Chinese. I always think of Egyptian heiroglyphs as the symbols (falcon, eye, etc.). I know some of the symbols are actually numbers, but I thought the rest were the only writing.

You could spend your entire life learning about the past and still not know much.