Is this Murder? Kelly Thomas Killed by Fullerton, CA Police Officers

[FAHQTOO]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/27...k3%7C82193


IMO...This is murder...plain and simple, black and white, cut and dry!

[Lady Cop]

it's horrible and sad and tragic, i look forward to a full investigation and possibly charges.

37-year-old Kelly Thomas

[FAHQTOO]

http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/Handel2.ht...le=8891890


Here's an interview with a witness. My first thought would be, why didn't he do something?...WTF could anyone do? All the fucking police were already there...beating this man to death!!

[BlueTiki]

It wasn't murder.

The cops were out 'clubbing' in Fullerton.

[Maggot]

I wonder who got his shopping cart?

[Lady Cop]

Los Angeles (CNN) -- Six Fullerton, California, police officers were placed on involuntary administrative leave as the FBI and Orange County District Attorney investigate the death of a homeless man who was in police custody, authorities said Wednesday.

The decision by Police Chief Michael Sellers came just hours before a contentious Fullerton City Council meeting Tuesday evening. More than 100 residents spent three hours at the meeting expressing outrage about the death of Kelly Thomas, who sustained serious injuries during the July 5 arrest by the officers, a police spokesman said.

more of story :(

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/03/cali...?hpt=hp_t2

[Lady Cop]

Santa Ana, California (CNN) -- A California judge ordered Wednesday that two Fullerton police officers stand trial in the beating death last year of Kelly Thomas, a homeless man with a mental illness.

Officer Manuel Ramos is charged with second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter, and Cpl. Jay Patrick Cicinelli is charged with involuntary manslaughter and felony use of excessive force.

Orange County Superior Court Judge Walter Schwarm scheduled the next hearing in the case on May 22.

Schwarm's ruling came after a three-day preliminary hearing that ended Wednesday.

Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas, who's prosecuting the case, told reporters that he expected defense attorneys to challenge Wednesday's ruling in a motion and possibly an appeal.

Rackauckas said the case "was a terrible incident, and we're going to proceed forward and get justice."

"This is a hard thing to file, a case of this nature against police officers, because we have tremendous law enforcement in Orange County," Rackauckas told reporters. "This kind of incident is very damaging to the community -- to everybody, the police, the community -- because it erodes that trust.

"It brings down the image of the entire community," the county's elected prosecutor said.

Ron Thomas, the father of Kelly Thomas, told reporters after the ruling that the Fullerton Police Department "is full of good officers."

"It's just this band of criminals, these hoodlums," Ron Thomas added.

Ron Thomas noted he and others in his family have worked in law enforcement for "generations."

He said his son would have "never thought a police officer would beat him to death."

The three-day hearing included attorneys repeating a profanity that Ramos uttered to Kelly Thomas, who had schizophrenia, before a total of six police officers were involved in subduing and beating him.

Rackauckas said he repeated the obscenity several times in court to show how Ramos' conduct was "a very far departure from professional and reasonable police" practices.

Kelly Thomas was shirtless and with a backpack when Ramos first approached him in response to a police call that a transient male fitting that description at the Fullerton bus depot was "trying door handles," attorneys for both sides said. The incident evolved into a police inquiry into "a minor property crime" possibly involving receiving stolen property, Rackauckas told the court.

During testimony earlier Wednesday, Orange County coroner's pathologist Dr. Aruna Singhania continuing answering questions for a second day from attorneys for Ramos and Cicinelli about the autopsy she performed on Thomas, 37, after the July incident.

Ramos and Cicinelli have pleaded not guilty to the charges.

Later, in presenting arguments before the court ruling was issued, Rackauckas told the judge that there's sufficient evidence to put the two officers on trial.

"It's a very bad day in Orange County when we have to charge two police officers with these kinds of terrible crimes," the county's elected prosecutor told the judge. "They're sworn to uphold the law, and they're entrusted with the authority given to them by the state of California."

Defense attorneys objected when Rackauckas continued his comments and started speaking of the "awesome power" with which police officers are entrusted.

"This is not a press conference," said attorney Michael Schwartz, representing defendant Cicinelli.

The prosecutor discontinued that line of argument and began addressing other topics after the judge told him: "The court does understand the powers that police officers have, and the level of trust that society places in police officers."

John Barnett, the attorney for Ramos, argued that prosecutors didn't provide sufficient evidence to order his client to stand trial.

On Tuesday, Singhania provided the court with nearly two dozen autopsy photos, prompting Thomas' mother and father to leave the courtroom, as they did on Monday when a videotape of the beating was played. The 16 minutes of video came from a surveillance camera at a downtown Fullerton bus depot where the incident occurred.

Singhania testified Tuesday that based on her autopsy, medical records and the videotape, she determined mechanical chest compressions with blunt cranial injuries caused Thomas' death.

Singhania also testified that Thomas suffered a complete hemorrhaging of his left eye.

Thomas was beaten by police during the July 5, 2011, incident and died five days later, prosecutors say. The FBI is investigating civil rights violations in the case, as well.

Rackauckas has said that Thomas suffered brain injuries, facial fractures, rib fractures and extensive bruising and abrasions. The county coroner listed his manner of death as a homicide and said he died because he was unable to breathe after having his chest compressed.

Ramos, 37, a 10-year veteran of the police department, would face a maximum sentence of 15 years to life if convicted, authorities said. Cicinelli, 39, a 12-year Fullerton police veteran, would face a maximum of four years in prison if convicted.

[HairOfTheDog]

This story pisses me off and hurts my heart, LC. I met Kelly a few times when I lived near Cal State Fullerton, years and years ago. He was out there because he wasn't on meds for his schizoprhenia, but even so he was sweet and interesting. I followed the case early on but had to step back. There is no excuse for what the Fullerton PD did to him, imo. None.

[FAHQTOO]

This story pisses me off and hurts my heart, LC. I met Kelly a few times when I lived near Cal State Fullerton, years and years ago. He was out there because he wasn't on meds for his schizoprhenia, but even so he was sweet and interesting. I followed the case early on but had to step back. There is no excuse for what the Fullerton PD did to him, imo. None.

I agree. I'm wondering why it wasn't first degree murder. They beat him to death and there are plenty of witnesses.
If it wasn't LE that did this, would the charges be first degree?

[HairOfTheDog]

This story pisses me off and hurts my heart, LC. I met Kelly a few times when I lived near Cal State Fullerton, years and years ago. He was out there because he wasn't on meds for his schizoprhenia, but even so he was sweet and interesting. I followed the case early on but had to step back. There is no excuse for what the Fullerton PD did to him, imo. None.

I agree. I'm wondering why it wasn't first degree murder. They beat him to death and there are plenty of witnesses.
If it wasn't LE that did this, would the charges be first degree?

I hope LC weighs in on your question about the charges FAHQTOO. Witnesses and tapes too confirm what went down. It was so brutal and Kelly was not being violent, just slow in responding.

[Lady Cop]

1^st degree in most jurisdictions requires the elements of malice, intent to murder, premeditation. i don't know CA. statute at the moment.

[Adub]

Gawd Damn Schizophrenics, they need to be exterminated just like pit bulls and suspicious black youth. They have no place in a decent society.

[FAHQTOO]

1^st degree in most jurisdictions requires the elements of malice, intent to murder, premeditation. i don't know CA. statute at the moment.

Thanks LC. I guess I'm a black and white kind of person when it comes to this stuff. He/they beat him to death...they need the death penalty.

[Maggot]

That guy could be any number of people I know today that could be just etching out a life in what was thrown at them by the finger of fate. They live with a different look of life than most. Perhaps an even more true vision than anyone cares to admit. We are all just 3 steps from the same end actually. A sad story at any rate.

[Lady Cop]

the mother accepted a $1 million settlement. story & photos:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...death.html

[aussiefriend]

This was excessive force in the extreme. I hope that police officers are offended by this behaviour because this is exactly the kind of thing that gives the police force a bad name. Those guys are accountable. It looked traumatising for the witnesses just to watch. The onlookers were horrified as clearly something was not wrong. They had no mercy on that poor guy as he yelled out 'dad'. On what grounds was the poor man illegally detained? Their behaviour was unprofessional and I would think breach a code of conduct as it is criminal.

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm glad that Kelly's mother got $1million; not much considering how and to whom she lost her son. The settlement doesn't affect the charges against the Fullerton PD nor does it affect her ex-husband's (Kelly's dad) ability to file suit against city officials in the future.

Mr. Thomas has been the driver and leading advocate in trying to get some justice for his son; I didn't see much of his mom in the media just after the incident occurred. Probably suffering in silence. I'd be surprised if Mr. Thomas doesn't file suit after the criminal case finishes. Watching a video of your mentally ill son being beaten to death by PD while screaming "help me, Dad"; can't imagine a much sadder or more angering experience in the world.

[pspence]

http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/Handel2.ht...le=8891890


Here's an interview with a witness. My first thought would be, why didn't he do something?...WTF could anyone do? All the fucking police were already there...beating this man to death!!

I could very possibly be the biggest wussy there if I happened to be in the midst of something like that but I would sure like to believe what I feel in my gut I'd do....to at least go over there there and scream, "look you bastards, leave that poor man alone!!"

[pspence]

y s
Gawd Damn Schizophrenics, they need to be exterminated just like pit bulls and suspicious black youth. They have no place in a decent society.

My brother is schizophrenic. He is one of the sweetest guys on the planet. They are usually very gentle and have less rate/violence than the general population. My mom has often said her biggest fear is that my brother will be at the wrong place at the wrong time and police will misinterpret his demeanor and arrest him.

He was going to be a priest but they asked him to leave...he is very difficult to be around. mom said once that if he would have had downs syndrome it would have been much easier. to see your child grow up being a normal great kid all through High School and then see this total breakdown. tragic for my parents and my whole family.

[Nina]

Two of these officers are being charged. One with 2^nd degree murder and one with involuntary manslaughter and felony use of excessive force. Story is here: Daddy Help! They're Killing Me!

Cpl. Jay Patrick Cicinelli is charged with involuntary manslaughter and felony use of excessive force. Officer Manuel Ramos faces the more serious charge of second-degree murder, because prosecutors believe he took a more active role in the assault. Both officers have pleaded not guilty.

This week, at the preliminary hearing to determine whether enough evidence supports proceeding with a trial, prosecutors aired a graphic video of the savage beating. The footage shows about a half dozen officers punching and kicking and putting pressure on Thomas' chest, firing electric shocks from a Taser stun gun, all to supposedly subdue a suspect well beyond the point where he is resisting or capable of resisting arrest.

Early on, Ramos appears to tell the young man who is sitting on the ground: "You see my fists? They're getting ready to f--- you up!" Another police officer is heard saying: "We ran out of options so I got to the end of my Taser and I ... smashed his face to hell."

By the end of the video, Thomas is lying in a pool of blood. According to prosecutors, the young man suffered brain injuries, facial fractures, broken ribs and extensive bruises and abrasions. He died five days later.

This should bring some small comfort to Ron Thomas. He needs it. He has to carry around with him for the rest of his life that, as his son was fighting for his life, he cried out for his father to protect him from these bullies. On the video, we hear Kelly Thomas screaming: "Daddy, help! They're killing me!"