walking while black - Trayvon Martin

[HairOfTheDog]

-Judge Nelson and the attorneys have agreed that the jury will be sequestered.

-500 potential jurors will be questioned.

Benjamin Crump, the Martin family's attorney, issued this statement after the hearing today:

There is no doubt that the legislature intended that a Stand Your Ground Immunity Hearing should be decided before trial. Because ultimately, the Stand Your Ground Statute grants immunity from civil lawsuits, arrests, and trials, if a defendant prevails.

Therefore, while it may be theoretically possible for George Zimmerman to merge his Stand Your Ground Hearing into the trial, there is really no advantage to a defendant with a strong defense to do so.

The fact that George Zimmerman has decided to now waive his right to a stand your ground hearing before trial is very telling of his defense or lack there of. We believe the Defense’s decision to waive a pre-trial hearing and to merge the Stand Your Ground Hearing into the trial is to prevent putting George Zimmerman on the stand and to preclude the public and the potential jury pool from previewing the many inconsistencies in George Zimmerman’s story.

It has and continues to be our position that the Stand Your Ground Immunity Statute does not apply to the actions of George Zimmerman on the night that he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. Further, the decision made by the defense to waive a pretrial hearing and to solely continue on to trial vindicates the many thousands of protesters who demanded George Zimmerman be arrested for the killing of Trayvon Martin. After all, to have a felony criminal trial an arrest must first be made.

[Duchess]

I don't understand some of this stuff. Why go to the expense of a trial if at any time they can pull out the stand your ground thing that grants him immunity. Shouldn't that be decided first or am I misunderstanding like I think I am.

[HairOfTheDog]

^ This case is unusual and bringing to light some of the loopholes and unintended applications of the Stand Your Ground laws. IMO.

If my understanding is correct, there isn't a specific requirement that SYG immunity be pursued ahead of/in lieu of a self defense criminal trial. Since the sequence isn't specifically spelled out legally, Judge Nelson (got to watch her today for the first time; very in control of the court room and matter of fact) is allowing a reversal of what many believe was the intended sequence.

Your concern/question is shared by the Martin's attorney, Crump. Based on his public statements, he believes that allowing the possibility for immunity using SYG AFTER a jury trial is outside the intent of the law. He doesn't believe that immunity should be an option as a second chance or fall back (with a judge) if a defendant fails to convince a jury that he acted in self defense.

IMO, O'Mara doesn't want George to testify (as required) at a SYG immunity hearing because he isn't confident that a judge would grant immunity. If immunity were denied, the prosecution could use what was revealed in the failed SYG immunity hearing against Zimmerman at the subsequent murder 2 jury trial.

I think it's a smart strategy by the defense (whether it's an exploitation of a weakly written law or not) if they have good reason to fear that immunity would be denied.

It will be interesting to see if the SYG law gets re-worked in the near future. As a result of this case, there's a lot of talk and differing opinions about its validity as it's currently written.


All JMO to the best of my understanding...

[Adub]

O'Mara doesn't have a lot to work with seeing as his client is a big fat murdering idiot liar.

And that other Attorney working with O'Mara creeps me out.

The State's attorney called out that fucked-up Conservative Tree House website again. I swear to God, CTH is only in this because a black kid was murdered. They could care less about Zimmerman.

And, their conspiracy theories are nuts. They believe that Witness 8 doesn't actually exist. That she is a made-up witness created to get Zimmerman arrested. And Trayvon's cell-phone that was found south of his body and photographed by the crime scene investigators, was not really Trayvon's. It was planted there by who knows who to frame Zimmerman. It is all a bunch of racist craziness. And it is these cray cray's that O'Mara and West bow down to. And start complaining to the Judge that they haven't got this, or they haven't got that when the State doesn't even have it. It all made-up shit.

Bernie de la Rionda did great today on the cross of Skeletor.

[username]

110 lbs.

Well at least we know what he's been doing with the donated money.

[Maggot]

quote:
It has and continues to be our position that the Stand Your Ground Immunity Statute does not apply to the actions of George Zimmerman on the night that he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. Further, the decision made by the defense to waive a pretrial hearing and to solely continue on to trial vindicates the many thousands of protesters who demanded George Zimmerman be arrested for the killing of Trayvon Martin. After all, to have a felony criminal trial an arrest must first be made.


This should not have a bearing on this case. This application is useless. Stand your ground had it not been implicated post haste should stand on its own. To bring verification of the law as it stands should be the deciding factor not public referendum.

[Adub]

quote:
It has and continues to be our position that the Stand Your Ground Immunity Statute does not apply to the actions of George Zimmerman on the night that he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. Further, the decision made by the defense to waive a pretrial hearing and to solely continue on to trial vindicates the many thousands of protesters who demanded George Zimmerman be arrested for the killing of Trayvon Martin. After all, to have a felony criminal trial an arrest must first be made.


This should not have a bearing on this case. This application is useless. Stand your ground had it not been implicated post haste should stand on its own. To bring verification of the law as it stands should be the deciding factor not public referendum.

Exactly, Maggot. Mr Crump, the victim's family attorney, has no bearing on the case. That is why he won't be deposed by the defense. That is why he can go on TeeVee and give his opinion anytime he wants. He can be accused of being a rabble rouser, but that does not excuse what Zimmerman did.

Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged much sooner. When Sanford PD finally sent in the capias asking that Zimmerman be charged, the Assistant State attorney at the time, Jim Carter, accused the Sanford PD of fucking him up the ass. The ASA was pissed that the SPD recommended that Zimmerman be charged. Why? I just don't get it. Zimmerman obviously was making up shit as the investigation went along. Zimmerman knew that his ass was in the sling. And he was trying to side-step his earlier statements.

George Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon Martin as a "suspect" involved in previous burglaries in the gated community. That is pretty obvious. Just read Zimmerman's police statement from the night of the murder. It is sick. I think he called Trayvon the "suspect" over a dozen times in a two or three page statement. Zimmerman fucked-up. Trayvon Martin was just walking back to his father's girlfriend's townhome. Minding his own business. Nothing more.

[username]

Whether or not it was racial profiling, that "suspect" attitude and George's subsequent actions bug the shit out of me.

You silently stalk someone, fail to identify yourself and the person turns around and confronts their stalker and an altercation ensues? And the person being stalked is at fault?

Fuck that. If it went down that way, Trayvon was standing his ground.

[Adub]

Whether or not it was racial profiling, that "suspect" attitude and George's subsequent actions bug the shit out of me.

You silently stalk someone, fail to identify yourself and the person turns around and confronts their stalker and an altercation ensues? And the person being stalked is at fault?

Fuck that. If it went down that way, Trayvon was standing his ground.

How can it be anything other than racial profiling? When Zimmerman prefaced all his statements with what some black kid was suspected of weeks previously? All of his statements begin with "... we've had previous break-ins in our community... yada yada yada.... blah blah blah... " Knowing that some black kid had been ID'd on two occasions as suspicious. And one was apprehended and arrested.

If it sounds better how about naming what Zimmerman did as criminally profiling Trayvon based on his race?

It makes no difference. If Trayvon had not been a black kid, he would be alive to day. That is my bottom line. Zimmerman is fucked.

[username]

Zimmerman might have profiled but if the kid in the hoodie had been white, it wouldn't make any difference to me. He stalked a stranger. Period. He's not facing charges for profiling; that's an aside/distraction.

[Adub]

Profiling is not illegal. And it is included in the probable cause affidavit. It is more than a distraction.
It is why Zimmerman is facing Murder changes rather than Manslaughter.

[Duchess]

The fact that George was the initial aggressor better play a role in this trial. George brought this on himself, I have no sympathy for him/his situation. Fuck 'em.

I'm hopeful that the law will be revised after this fiasco, it almost has to be in order to avoid something like this in the future.

[HairOfTheDog]

THE "HELP" AUDIO

Today, Zimmerman's lawyer (O'Mara) petitioned the judge not to allow the prosecution to present voice-recognition experts to testify about the help screams heard in the background of 911 tape.

If the judge allows these experts, it's gonna be interesting.

Zimmerman's camp says it's George crying for help.

Trayvon's camp says it's Trayvon crying for help (though his father didn't originally think it was his son).

So, what do the experts say?:

-FBI analysts ruled that they couldn't conclusively identify the voice.

-Two voice-identification experts retained by the Orlando Sentinel newspaper shortly after the killing ruled out Zimmerman as the person crying for help. Both experts quoted by the newspaper subsequently were added to the state's witness list.

-Tom Owen, a nationally recognized audio expert who previously qualified as a court expert witness, used biometric software to analyze the cries for help. Owen told the Sentinel that he concluded "with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman."

None of it is definitive/conclusive. This could be muddy and confusing testimony for the jury, but unless the defense can produce some credible expert to identify the voice as George or at least rule out that it's Trayvon, the state clearly holds the upper hand if the experts are allowed in.

[username]

Interesting! I hope the judge allows it. If the defense doesn't want it in, it seems obvious to me that they know it's not George's voice.

[Jimbone]

I wonder... they won't allow the voice stress analysis in that the PD used on Zimmerman, so I would think this might get kept out as well.

[HairOfTheDog]

Haven't seen an update as to whether or not Judge Nelson will allow the voice analysis experts to testify for the state, but things are heating up as the trial is set to begin in one month.

Here's the latest from today:

The day before the deadline for pre-trial motions in the George Zimmerman case, there was a flurry of filings Thursday.

JURORS:
-O'Mara asked the judge to keep the names of potential jurors secret. He asked for the jury to be sequestered, citing the intense media focus on the case.

-He also referenced the Casey Anthony murder case, in which jurors were sequestered and anonymous during trial. Their names were eventually released after trial. O'Mara notes the Anthony jurors were the subject of "contempt" after their not-guilty verdict.

-He also filed paperwork asking his judge to allow trial jurors to visit the scene of Trayvon Martin's shooting. The defense argues visiting the shooting scene would allow jurors to better understand the vantage point of individual eye- and ear-witnesses.

DEPOSING SHELLIE ZIMMERMAN:
-The state asked Nelson to order George's wife, Shellie Zimmerman, to answer their questions at a pre-trial hearing. During their first attempt to depose her, prosecutors say, she asked for a break and, after talking to her lawyer, refused to answer further questions.

-Shellie Zimmerman invoked her right against self-incrimination under the Fifth Amendment, citing her pending perjury case. Prosecutors say they weren't going to ask about that.

[Duchess]

I'm looking forward to the circus.

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm looking forward to the circus.

I'm looking forward to hearing how Judge Nelson rules on the last few pre-trial motions. Can't find any updates.

Here's what I'd like to see:

1. Judge Nelson disallows anything related to:
a. Shellie Zimmerman's perjury charges - not relevant to the murder 2 case. (She's gonna plead the 5^th anyway, I don't think she'll be a real factor in this case.)

b. Trayvon's parents' settlement award by the homeowners association - not relevant to the murder 2 case.

2. Judge Nelson allows:
a. The voice analyst experts requested by the prosecution.
The jury can hear the 911 tapes with the "help" scream in the background and then decide which witnesses (family members from both sides, along with voice analysts) are most credible. Or, they can determine themselves if it's just too murky to consider. It's evidence.

b. The jury field trip to the scene of the crime requested by the defense.
Why not? Maybe it will help them to have a better understanding of what happened the night that Trayvon was killed and which side's version is more credible.

Not sure how I feel about keeping the jury names sealed even after verdict. I understand the request by the defense. If some jurors want to reveal their identities after trial, they won't be denied. I could see keeping the others anonymous, though it kinda restricts freedom of the press/reporting.

Hoping for news on her rulings soon.

[Jimbone]

If the voice analyst experts by the prosecution are allowed, Nelson will likely have to rule the voice stress analysis that LE used when interviewing Zimmerman is fair game too.

That would be dangerous for the prosecution, because LE believed the voice stress analysis did not show deception by Zimmerman, and if it becomes admissible LE officials will have to testify to that. It would be enormously powerful for police investigators testifying on the stand that a tool they used during interrogation seemed to indicate Zimmerman was not lying.

[HairOfTheDog]

If the voice analyst experts by the prosecution are allowed, Nelson will likely have to rule the voice stress analysis that LE used when interviewing Zimmerman is fair game too.

That would be dangerous for the prosecution, because LE believed the voice stress analysis did not show deception by Zimmerman, and if it becomes admissible LE officials will have to testify to that. It would be enormously powerful for police investigators testifying on the stand that a tool they used during interrogation seemed to indicate Zimmerman was not lying.

I'm anxious to find out what Judge Nelson allows in.

If she allows them both, we'll see the battle of voice technologies, each with inherent margins of error that could be easily exploited by the other side. Right or wrong, the perceived credibility or likability of the expert witnesses could determine which side wins the battle.

Or, the expert witnesses could simply cancel each other out in the minds of the jurors. I suspect that happens frequently with expert testimony related to less definitive sciences. Lots of time and money invested with little return on investment when it comes to verdict impact. JMO.

With or without the voice experts, it's gonna be an interesting trial, that's for sure.