walking while black - Trayvon Martin

[Duchess]

George was unacceptable cop material because he had/has crappy credit. I'm smirkin'.

[Midwest Spy]

And, I'm still of the belief that T sought him out. Went back to him.

That's because you are one stoopid motherfucker.

Hey Fucknut.

T would still be alive today if he hadn't gone back to whoop some ass.

Everyone knows it.

[Duchess]

Everyone knows it.

You're doing it again, you fucker.

[Midwest Spy]

Everyone knows it.

You're doing it again, you fucker.

Yes.

Yes I am.

Is the truth hurtful or just annoying?

[Duchess]

You don't speak for me.

[Duchess]

Isn't this lovely, stand your ground applies to how T felt.

[Cynical Ninja]

Hey Fucknut.

T would still be alive today if he hadn't gone back to whoop some ass.

Everyone knows it.

Hey ziphead.

T would still be alive today if a wannabe cop turned vigilante hadn't stalked an unarmed teenager after he was told not to by a police dispatcher because he was desperate to make a name for himself in his neighbourhood.

Everyone knows it.

[Midwest Spy]

Hey Fucknut.

T would still be alive today if he hadn't gone back to whoop some ass.

Everyone knows it.

Hey ziphead.

T would still be alive today if a wannabe cop turned vigilante hadn't stalked an unarmed teenager after he was told not to by a police dispatcher because he was desperate to make a name for himself in his neighbourhood.

Everyone knows it.

Maybe he was actually concerned about his neighborhood?

Just a couple of weeks back, many in here applauded the people in an Oregon town that said, "If you come here with bad intentions, we're all armed. Good luck!".

What's the difference? Because he's a fat Hispanic that thinks he's white?

He was tired of shit going down in his neighborhood and yes, he profiled and even followed somebody.

I don't believe for a minute he was a trigger happy robo-cop wannabe that was searching out a young black kid to kill. Did he think black kids commit most of the crimes? I'm sure he did.

If he'd some prior history of profiling and following people in his neighborhood, I think that would've been brought to light.

At the point he decided to keep an eye on T, no one was going to be killed.

I don't think he ever thought his pursuit would lead to a physical confrontation. But, he had his gun just in case, which obviously gave him the balls to keep following.

Who initiated that confrontation? To me, that's what a verdict should be based on. If Z laid his hands on T first, he's guilty, no doubt, of the charges against him.

If not, he should walk.

[BlueTiki]

At the point he decided to keep an eye on T. . .

Too bad the neighborhood didn't keep a watchful eye on tubbie.

Skittles might still be with us . . . enjoying an AZ Iced Tea.

[HairOfTheDog]

WTF. I heard the defense attorneys an hour ago having a big problem with George's credit history being discussed in court, I swear I did and I feel certain that the judge agreed to keep that particular page out of court but just now it was the defense who brought it up with a witness.

You're right. The judge did prohibit the prosecution, at the hearing this morning, from citing George's bad credit history, based on O'Mara's objection. During trial, O'Mara then cited it himself during cross examination of the witness who testified as to the police rejection letter.

At that point, I think O'Mara figured it would be better that the jury know Zimmerman's credit was the basis for his police application being rejected, rather than leave them to speculate that it was based on something related to character or background. It was sneaky and smart for O'Mara to object to it and then use it himself. All JMO.

I don't think he ever thought his pursuit would lead to a physical confrontation.

This is where I now disagree with your "George was simply a concerned citizen watching out for his neighborhood" scenario.

I share your opinion that George wasn't out hunting black boys that night. I don't think the prosecution is suggesting that scenario either.

We know from George's own words to the NE911 operator, and from the Neighborhood Watch Police Liaison's testimony, that George followed Trayvon; he disregarded the very clear and repeated instructions given to Neighborhood Watch participants against doing so. That fact is now undisputed.

Whether or not he continued to follow after being advised not to do so by the NE911 operator that night is still unproven. George says he was just looking for a street sign. Detective Serino found that suspicious; me too. There were only 3 streets in the neighborhood. George had lived there for years and patrolled there for months.

I now believe that George is lying about continuing "going in the same direction as Trayvon" in order to find a street sign. I believe he continued to follow Trayvon and was determined to detain him or catch him in the act of a crime. He wasn't going to leave it up to the cops, as he'd been instructed to do. He wasn't going to let another "asshole get away". This is my opinion based on his 911 call that night, his statements in his previous 911 calls, and his knowledge of the neighborhood.

Zimmerman made bad choices. I think he was indeed creepy because he had convinced himself in his frustrated mind that he was pursuing a "suspect".

Did he do anything illegal to provoke the altercation? I still don't have a firm opinion as to whether he made physical contact with Trayvon in attempt to detain him, or whether Trayvon punched him first out of frustration or fear. Nothing presented at trial so far has convinced me either way, I still have reasonable doubt as to who was the initial aggressor.

However, I now lean towards George making physical contact first. George grossly exaggerated the beating he took at the hands of Trayvon Martin, imo, based on the Chief ME's testimony regarding his injuries. There's no evidence he attempted to fight back before shooting. His credibility overall is now in serious question, to me. At this point, I have reasonable doubt that Zimmerman made every reasonable effort to escape the situation and was in reasonable fear for his life when he pulled the trigger, regardless of who was the initial physical aggressor.

[HairOfTheDog]

I was hoping the firearms expert's (Amy Steiwart) testimony would help to shed more light on the significance of the "contact" wound.

From her testimony...

I understand that the gun Zimmerman was carrying only fires when the trigger is pulled back hard and it only fires once. Also, a gun with its type of safeties is considered safe to carry while loaded.

I understand that the holes in Trayvon's sweatshirt and undershirt line up with each other and that the sweatshirt hole shows tearing and burning and blood, indicating that the muzzle of the gun was against the sweatshirt fabric when fired. Stiewart could not say whether the muzzle was just touching the shirt or pressed hard into it.

So, the gun's muzzle was against Trayvon's sweatshirt when George fired. There was no testimony as to what position George was in as compared to Travyon or anything enlightening about how things went down, unless I missed the significance of something.

Maybe there's another forensics expert on the agenda who can provide more regarding the significance of the gunshot wound?

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Didn't Z state that he was on his back with T over him when he fired ?
That would limit the possible distance from muzzle, pretty much putting the gun right against T

[HairOfTheDog]

Didn't Z state that he was on his back with T over him when he fired ?
That would limit the possible distance from muzzle, pretty much putting the gun right against T

Yes, he did say that, Six.

I'm hoping that the bullet trajectory or possibly blood spatter can confirm or refute George's account of his position and Trayvon's position when the shot was fired.

I don't know if it's possible for the experts to render that kind of conclusion from the evidence available in this case. Just hoping it is.

[username]

I think the prosecution has made several mistakes during this trial and if G walks, they'll be partially to blame. They're no Juan Martinez.

On the other hand, O'Mara has shown himself not to be the idiot I imagined

[HairOfTheDog]

I think the prosecution has made several mistakes during this trial and if G walks, they'll be partially to blame. They're no Juan Martinez.

So far, I haven't found the prosecution's evidence and witnesses to strongly support the charges.

Martinez had a confession, videotaped lies told by the murderer, hair and a palm print from the scene, a gross overkill...

In Zimmerman's case, a lot is riding on the prosecution proving George's state of mind was such that the less definitive evidence they have to work with should be interpreted as Zimmerman having acted criminally and with intent; resulting in Travyon's death.

What mistakes do you think they've made?

[Cynical Ninja]

In the transcript of zimmermans call with the police dispartcher Z says he is following Trayvon the police dispatcher talking to him immediately says:- “we don't need you to do that” to which Z responds “ok”.
Does he stop his pursuit of T? No, instead he re-engages in the pursuit and intensifies it because he was determined to catch someone red handed that night. “These guys always get away” were his words that night underlining his determination to catch and confront someone that night.
The bullet holes on T's clothing seem to suggest that T may have been trying to pull away from Z but Z grabbed him by his clothing pulled T back toward him and fired at near point blank range.

[username]

What mistakes do you think they've made?

I'd have to rack my brain for several specifics but overall, I don't think they're asking the questions correctly to get the answers they want from the witnesses. They're just not very forceful.

One thing...I didn't see the testimony from the teacher that taught George's class but I heard a snip where he was talking about when a reasonable person might fear for his life....not so much during the day but perhaps more so on a dark night. I hope that the prosecution on redirect would have said something to the effect of "if you perceived that a stranger was following you on a dark, stormy night for 8 minutes, could that cause a reasonable person to be in fear for their life..."? Or something to that effect.

The other thing is O'Mara does seem to lead the witnesses. Granted, I'm not anywhere near an expert but it seems like the prosecution could have made some objections in that regard. Maybe not. IDK.

[Adub]

Granted, I'm not anywhere near an expert but it seems like the prosecution could have made some objections in that regard. Maybe not. IDK.

The defense is allowed to lead the witness on cross. There are different rules for direct and cross.

But, if it makes you feel better, I've been screaming STFU already!

[HairOfTheDog]

The prosecution is wrapping up its case. Doesn't look like they have a smoking gun to present.

The DNA specialist (Gorgone) is on the stand.

-GUN: George's gun grip had a mixture of DNA - George's and somebody else's (not Travyon's).
-TRAYVON'S HANDS: Travyon had none of George's DNA under his nails.
-TRAYVON'S CLOTHES: One stain on Trayvon's gray sweatshirt contained George's DNA, one contained Trayvon's, and one contained a mixture of both George's and Trayvon's DNA.
-ZIMMERMAN'S JACKET: Two stains on Zimmerman's jacket contained a mixture of George's and Trayvon's DNA.

Trayvon's mom Sybrina may testify for the prosecution as their final witness.

The prosecution really needs to expertly link all of the pieces together during its Closing Statement, especially the implications of the forensics and George's state of mind. Their narrative is very loose, imo. I think Zimmerman has a decent chance of being acquitted, as it stands now.

Wonder if the defense will call any witnesses. O'Mara might not feel it's necessary.

[Midwest Spy]

^ The prosecution is wrapping up its case. Doesn't look like they have a smoking gun to present.

The DNA specialist (Gorgone) is on the stand.

-GUN: George's gun grip had a mixture of DNA - George's and somebody else's (not Travyon's).
-TRAYVON'S HANDS: Travyon had none of George's DNA under his nails.
-TRAYVON'S CLOTHES: One stain on Trayvon's gray sweatshirt contained George's DNA, one contained Trayvon's, and one contained a mixture of both George's and Trayvon's DNA.
-ZIMMERMAN'S JACKET: Two stains on Zimmerman's jacket contained a mixture of George's and Trayvon's DNA.

Trayvon's mom Sybrina may testify for the prosecution as their final witness.

The prosecution really needs to expertly link all of the pieces together during its Closing Statement, especially the implications of the forensics and George's state of mind. Their narrative is very loose right now, imo. I think Zimmerman has a decent chance of being acquitted, as it stands now.

Wonder if the defense will call any witnesses. O'Mara might not feel it's necessary.

I wonder if he'll have the audacity to ask the judge for a dismissal after the prosecution rests?