GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

[Blindgreed1]

I showed y'all a clip from that Dateline special about kids & guns. It's not enough to tell them guns are bad/dangerous. It must be reiterated over and over again. I daresay most kids know that guns are a big NO but that won't keep them from handling one if they should ever come across one.

I have seen these Dateline specials. The parents stand in the background totally shocked that their child (after having been warned about firearms) not only picked up the gun, but pointed it at others....there seems to be this fascination with guns regardless of age and warnings.

Likewise, when children are warned about stranger danger, etc. Dateline has done specials wherein, the child goes off with stranger to look for his missing puppy. Again, the shocked parents stand behind the scenes with the producers of the show and can't believe their child actually went off with a stranger.

Warnings are very often useless when dealing with children....they aren't mature enough to call in good judgement, whether it be danger from a stranger, a firearm, etc....The shows which have been featured on Dateline, 20/20, etc. should serve as a reminder to everyone that warnings to children are, most often, totally useless.

And yet I made it this far in life after being around firearms my whole childhood. I had unabated access to them too. Amazing...

As did myself and my children and now my grand children. Every member of my family as far back as I can remember has owned their own firearm starting at age 7. As well as the ammo for it.
However, now I have actually taken position of the firearms owned by my children and grand children. Not because of their gun handling techniques, but rather because one child is going through a addiction issue and the other is dealing with PTSD. I felt it was my duty to take charge and remove a potential threat to both of them [and others], at least for a while.

You are a responsible adult who loves his children and grandchildren. It's what responsible adults do.

[F.U.]

Thanks BG. I actually had my own guns taken away from me for a short period of time when I was a kid. I screwed up and pointed a toy gun at my sister when I was about 10. My old man snatched it out of my hand before I could blink, smashed it against the door jam, chewed my ass out and marched straight to my room and took my shotgun and rifle. I don't remember how long I lost them but I do know it was long enough that I never pointed a gun like that again.
After saying that I have to wonder if that isn't a big part of the problem now a days. If parents would just teach their kids right from wrong we might not be in this mess now.

[sally]

I think 10 years old is plenty old enough to know right from wrong, but even then they don't always make good judgment calls. Never mind 2 and 3 year olds. The reason we're in the mess we're in in regards to kids shooting themselves or others is because the parents didn't lock their guns up.

[Blindgreed1]

Thanks BG. I actually had my own guns taken away from me for a short period of time when I was a kid. I screwed up and pointed a toy gun at my sister when I was about 10. My old man snatched it out of my hand before I could blink, smashed it against the door jam, chewed my ass out and marched straight to my room and took my shotgun and rifle. I don't remember how long I lost them but I do know it was long enough that I never pointed a gun like that again.
After saying that I have to wonder if that isn't a big part of the problem now a days. If parents would just teach their kids right from wrong we might not be in this mess now.

Toy guns were not allowed in our home.

[HairOfTheDog]

I think 10 years old is plenty old enough to know right from wrong, but even then they don't always make good judgment calls. Never mind 2 and 3 year olds. The reason we're in the mess we're in in regards to kids shooting themselves or others is because the parents didn't lock their guns up.

That's just crazy talk, sal. The mess we're in with kids/shooting themselves or others is obviously because kids today just don't listen or take their responsibility for adults' loaded guns seriously enough.

We probably wouldn't be in this mess if parents would dole out more whoopins, ban or enforce stricter rules in regards to toy guns. and give kids their own real guns and ammo at 7-years-old. That makes much more sense than expecting parents to be responsible for protecting their own kids from their own loaded guns by locking up the weapons/tools.

Or........ maybe, extreme gun enthusiasts could keep their kids locked up in little cages to protect their guns from the irresponsible little bastards.

[afraidforallofus]

Instead of rambling posts, a bit of succint common sense. Amend the constitution, grow up. move on, please stop killing each other. We did.

[Maggot]

I've noticed that over the years guns have been shunned and made taboo with many kids yet teaching the proper safe handling of guns has been taken away by many school systems. I can only suggest that with the drop in educational mandates on guns the rate of killings and crime has risen.

[afraidforallofus]

Thoughts on the impact of shoot-'em-up computer games?

[Maggot]

Thoughts on the impact of shoot-'em-up computer games?

I believe many of the realistic games out today tend to dumb down some kids with thoughts that have less empathy than say an "asteroids" game or pac-man. I remember some people complaining that "Duck hunt" was to violent back in the day. Today manufacturers just stick a "PG" sticker on it and move along.

[F.U.]

I think 10 years old is plenty old enough to know right from wrong, but even then they don't always make good judgment calls. Never mind 2 and 3 year olds. The reason we're in the mess we're in in regards to kids shooting themselves or others is because the parents didn't lock their guns up.

That's just crazy talk, sal. The mess we're in with kids/shooting themselves or others is obviously because kids today just don't listen or take their responsibility for adults' loaded guns seriously enough.

We probably wouldn't be in this mess if parents would dole out more whoopins, ban or enforce stricter rules in regards to toy guns. and give kids their own real guns and ammo at 7-years-old. That makes much more sense than expecting parents to be responsible for protecting their own kids from their own loaded guns by locking up the weapons/tools.

Or........ maybe, extreme gun enthusiasts could keep their kids locked up in little cages to protect their guns from the irresponsible little bastards.

You all fucked up or something today? I think you are missing my point. I am not saying it is all on the lack of parenting. I am saying that is probably a part of it. There is no silver bullet for this issue. It will take efforts from all sides to solve this. Jesus Christ, work with me a little here instead of bashing all the fucking time.

[HairOfTheDog]

Instead of rambling posts, a bit of succint common sense. Amend the constitution, grow up. move on, please stop killing each other. We did.

I'm grown up enough to give credit to Australia for its achievement in reducing multiple victim shootings and consider how the U.S. might leverage from the model. I'm also grown up enough to acknowledge/respect that your culture and governing practices are not the same as ours in all ways.

But, there are still people killing each other with guns in Australia. And, unless I missed something, Australia did not have to change its Constitution to enact strict new national gun laws. Individual gun rights were never part of the Australian Constitution, to the best of my knowledge.

We take Constitutional rights seriously here, and also the will of the people. The majority of the population and its elected government representatives don't support an amendment to the Second Amendment, nor a repeal. However, the majority does support stricter gun regulations. The U.S. Constitution doesn't need to be amended in order to enact stricter gun laws and stricter enforcement just because some gun advocates claim that the Second Amendment covers their every preference.

So, forgive us for continuing to discuss/debate the issue democratically in this discussion forum. We're silly like that. If you're too grown up to read the long rambling posts and choose to instead insist that you have an easy/right answer for America, that's okay. I'll read your short dismissive/ critiquing posts all the same.

[Blindgreed1]

Instead of rambling posts, a bit of succint common sense. Amend the constitution, grow up. move on, please stop killing each other. We did.

Fuck off.

[HairOfTheDog]

You all fucked up or something today? I think you are missing my point. I am not saying it is all on the lack of parenting. I am saying that is probably a part of it. There is no silver bullet for this issue. It will take efforts from all sides to solve this. Jesus Christ, work with me a little here instead of bashing all the fucking time.

Lock your guns whenever there are children around. That's pretty much a magic bullet F.U. If the gun can't physically be fired by a child, the child obviously can't fire it and shoot anybody.

Can't afford a safe? Well, take advantage of free gun locks then and use them on every gun you possess. That would prevent children firing guns they find in the home, in the car, in mom's purse...

Some of the parents of babies and toddlers who've shot and killed others were avid gun enthusiasts and gun rights advocates; the stories are posted in this thread. Their little ones were exposed to guns and talked to about gun safety and disciplined in regards to guns as a matter of routine. It didn't deter the kids from shooting the parents' guns. A gun lock or a gun safe, on the other hand, would have prevented that possibility altogether.

I'm not bashing you personally, F.U. I'm mocking the suggestion that lack of disciplined parenting or education on gun handling is a major contributing factor to the mess we're in regarding shootings by small children. The problem is entirely the result of adults (regardless as to whether they're good or bad parents) leaving loaded unlocked weapons in the reach of small children.

However, I do agree with you that appropriate discipline and education are important responsibilities that are neglected by too many parents. I think that contributes to a number of societal problems and always has.

[afraidforallofus]

And there's the problem. I wondered how long it would take someone to own up to the fact that the US doesn't WANT to change. The constitution is apparently as revered as the bible (which is both weird and humourous) and inviolate. How can you have stricter controls if the second amendment needs amending, yet no-one wants to amend it?

I say it again, we haven't had a mass shooting in 19 years. I can't be arsed looking up how many the US has had this week

[Blindgreed1]

And there's the problem. I wondered how long it would take someone to own up to the fact that the US doesn't WANT to change. The constitution is apparently as revered as the bible (which is both weird and humourous) and inviolate. How can you have stricter controls if the second amendment needs amending, yet no-one wants to amend it?

I say it again, we haven't had a mass shooting in 19 years. I can't be arsed looking up how many the US has had this week

Yet your homicide rates remain the same. You truly have shown the world how it should be done.

[afraidforallofus]

Miss the point much?

[F.U.]

HotD, one thing my friends in Law enforcement and those that I know that are on the wrong side of the law, have taught me is that locks only keep the honest man out. While it will help to lock up guns when it comes to toddlers and such. It is not a golden bullet. Those set on doing these mass shootings WILL gain access to the firearms, locked up or not and do the deed.
As far as a trigger lock goes. They are just about useless. If a person wants to fire the gun they simply cut the trigger guard and the lock falls off, giving them access to the still functioning trigger.
Like I said, this problem will need to be approached from all sides if we want to solve it.

[HairOfTheDog]

And there's the problem. I wondered how long it would take someone to own up to the fact that the US doesn't WANT to change. The constitution is apparently as revered as the bible (which is both weird and humourous) and inviolate. How can you have stricter controls if the second amendment needs amending, yet no-one wants to amend it?

I say it again, we haven't had a mass shooting in 19 years. I can't be arsed looking up how many the US has had this week

You were waiting unnecessarily, afraid. It's owned up to by a shitload of Americans wherever the topic is addressed, including this thread.

It's no secret that most Americans don't feel a Constitutional amendment is necessary in order to implement the changes in gun regulation that the majority of Americans want.

Most Americans do want stricter screening/requirements for gun ownership, stricter gun laws which are more consistently enforced across states, etc. Many also support bans on some gun types/ammo. All of which could be (or has been) accomplished by legislation passed by the Congress or mandated by Presidential Executive Order/Action without amending the Second Amendment,

The Second Amendment affords the people the right to bear arms in a "well-regulated" manner. That's broad. The Supreme Court ruled that applies to individuals who choose to bear arms for self-defense. But, the Second Amendment guarantees no one the right to bear any and all arms/ammo they so desire, nor does it prevent the government from disqualifying some citizens from gun ownership with cause.

I don't minimize Australia's achievement in regards to reducing multiple victim shootings. That's great. But, it's not a "niener niener niener, Australia is better than America" situation, to me. Maybe when I grow up, I'll understand that take on it.

[F.U.]

And there's the problem. I wondered how long it would take someone to own up to the fact that the US doesn't WANT to change. The constitution is apparently as revered as the bible (which is both weird and humourous) and inviolate. How can you have stricter controls if the second amendment needs amending, yet no-one wants to amend it?

I say it again, we haven't had a mass shooting in 19 years. I can't be arsed looking up how many the US has had this week

Yet your homicide rates remain the same. You truly have shown the world how it should be done.

There is the push down, pop up , problem at its finest. Push down on the old gun problem and POP, here is the new knife, baseball bat, etc problem .

[Duchess]

Lock your guns whenever there are children around.

That's not too much to ask, not by a long shot, yet in many homes it's beyond the capabilities of the adults. They are too stupid to live. I'm not kidding.