(02-19-2011, 07:07 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:59 PM)concerned Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:57 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:54 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:23 PM)Duchess Wrote:

If that phone call actually happened as TW claims it did then he didn't feel threatened at all and felt whatever was happening at that point was going to be easily handled in a matter of moments.

Agree

If that's true and she could hear that he felt he could handle it, then Tiffany wouldn't have gone over to the house concered. She would've just let Johnny "handle it".

People like that don't want to get involved in other people's business if it doesn't concern them. That's just asking for new enemies.

She went over to the house (and I believe she did) to cause more time to lapse, waste time.

I agree Toledonative

What I'm saying is look at her story. She also made it sound like there was yelling/fight going on. If you listen to the tapes again, Tiffany was concerned. After the phone hung up, she tried to call Lisa's phone and Johnny's phone and texted them. They wouldn't respond. So she had reason to be concerned. You wouldn't wait for your friend's mom to wake up so you could ask her if you can use her car to drive over and "check things out", you would've immediately called police or at least one of Johnny's tough guy friends. You wouldn't wait for a car and then take your big pregnant self over there alone. C'MON PEOPLE...keep believing Tiffany...

LOL, that's another question,....Did they wake the mom up(on the board she says they woke the mom up) or did they have to wait for her to come home(on the 911 call they had to wait for the mom to come home)?? Tiffany has said both!! Quack! Quack!

(02-19-2011, 07:07 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:59 PM)concerned Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:57 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:54 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:23 PM)Duchess Wrote:

If that phone call actually happened as TW claims it did then he didn't feel threatened at all and felt whatever was happening at that point was going to be easily handled in a matter of moments.

Agree

If that's true and she could hear that he felt he could handle it, then Tiffany wouldn't have gone over to the house concered. She would've just let Johnny "handle it".

People like that don't want to get involved in other people's business if it doesn't concern them. That's just asking for new enemies.

She went over to the house (and I believe she did) to cause more time to lapse, waste time.

I agree Toledonative

What I'm saying is look at her story. She also made it sound like there was yelling/fight going on. If you listen to the tapes again, Tiffany was concerned. After the phone hung up, she tried to call Lisa's phone and Johnny's phone and texted them. They wouldn't respond. So she had reason to be concerned. You wouldn't wait for your friend's mom to wake up so you could ask her if you can use her car to drive over and "check things out", you would've immediately called police or at least one of Johnny's tough guy friends. You wouldn't wait for a car and then take your big pregnant self over there alone. C'MON PEOPLE...keep believing Tiffany...

My hinky meter does go off a bit when I think of Tiff contacting the parents of JC to head over there.... I dunno, if it was me, and I was genuinely concerned like she says- I would have called a friend/tough guy associate etc., or someone they all knew to check on him, or take me to check on him. Then again, maybe another person would call the parents...not sure on this one yet

Quote:Freshbait78 Wrote:
Before posting this I want to be clear on 2 things. One, I asked for guidance from admin about this matter before posting & two, this is RUMOR from a 3^rd party.

My brother has worked at a local restaurant/pub for years & has regular customers. One of his regular costumers is good friends with a Toledo detective. The regular customer came into this establishment Thursday night & was chatting with my brother when this case came up in conversation. He claimed to have recieved insider information from his detective friend. I do trust my brother however I do not personally know this other person who gave my brother this information so again, it's 3^rd party.


This detectives friend claims that Lisa was in fact raped & that her tongue was either cut or cut out. I know there have been rumors swirling about a possible rape & I also know that there has been speculation about where the "pool" of blood on her face/side of head came from. If this is in fact true it would account for the blood. I really hope I do not hurt anyone close to Lisa in relaying what I have heard. I was hesitant to post this because I do not know it to be fact & didn't want to add to anyones pain, however there have been other rumors or 3^rd party information discussed here & I also asked for guidance/permission before hand.

I truly hope that this isn't true :(

If something like this were true...Lisa's cause of death was smothering. It is not uncommon to actually go into convulsions as you are dying from lack of oxygen to the brain. She could have easily bit her tongue. IF IT IS TRUE. If there was a small amount of blood, this suggests that whatever happen either didn't bleed much at all, OR that it occurred AFTER death, because the blood no longer pumps.

(02-19-2011, 07:17 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 07:07 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:59 PM)concerned Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:57 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:54 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote: Agree

If that's true and she could hear that he felt he could handle it, then Tiffany wouldn't have gone over to the house concered. She would've just let Johnny "handle it".

People like that don't want to get involved in other people's business if it doesn't concern them. That's just asking for new enemies.

She went over to the house (and I believe she did) to cause more time to lapse, waste time.

I agree Toledonative

What I'm saying is look at her story. She also made it sound like there was yelling/fight going on. If you listen to the tapes again, Tiffany was concerned. After the phone hung up, she tried to call Lisa's phone and Johnny's phone and texted them. They wouldn't respond. So she had reason to be concerned. You wouldn't wait for your friend's mom to wake up so you could ask her if you can use her car to drive over and "check things out", you would've immediately called police or at least one of Johnny's tough guy friends. You wouldn't wait for a car and then take your big pregnant self over there alone. C'MON PEOPLE...keep believing Tiffany...

My hinky meter does go off a bit when I think of Tiff contacting the parents of JC to head over there.... I dunno, if it was me, and I was genuinely concerned like she says- I would have called a friend/tough guy associate etc., or someone they all knew to check on him, or take me to check on him. Then again, maybe another person would call the parents...not sure on this one yet

CountrysideBelle: you said, "hinky". That tells me maybe you have some law enforcement background...

Lady Cop: you know what I'm talking about, don't you?

Is it me or did ZB delete Tiff and Aaron off his FB? I couldn't find them on his friends' list as I did before...

(02-19-2011, 07:21 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 07:17 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 07:07 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:59 PM)concerned Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:57 PM)ToledoNative Wrote: If that's true and she could hear that he felt he could handle it, then Tiffany wouldn't have gone over to the house concered. She would've just let Johnny "handle it".

People like that don't want to get involved in other people's business if it doesn't concern them. That's just asking for new enemies.

She went over to the house (and I believe she did) to cause more time to lapse, waste time.

I agree Toledonative

What I'm saying is look at her story. She also made it sound like there was yelling/fight going on. If you listen to the tapes again, Tiffany was concerned. After the phone hung up, she tried to call Lisa's phone and Johnny's phone and texted them. They wouldn't respond. So she had reason to be concerned. You wouldn't wait for your friend's mom to wake up so you could ask her if you can use her car to drive over and "check things out", you would've immediately called police or at least one of Johnny's tough guy friends. You wouldn't wait for a car and then take your big pregnant self over there alone. C'MON PEOPLE...keep believing Tiffany...

My hinky meter does go off a bit when I think of Tiff contacting the parents of JC to head over there.... I dunno, if it was me, and I was genuinely concerned like she says- I would have called a friend/tough guy associate etc., or someone they all knew to check on him, or take me to check on him. Then again, maybe another person would call the parents...not sure on this one yet

CountrysideBelle: you said, "hinky". That tells me maybe you have some law enforcement background...

Lady Cop: you know what I'm talking about, don't you?

I hear you...no LE with me, but I've been a nurse for 15 years and had my share of trauma units, detox centers, E.R.s, and worked in conjunction with LE many, many times.
Cops and nurses go together like peas n carrots jennay

If Tiffany's involved, then she'll be arrested eventually. Until LE names her a suspect or person of interest, I don't think she is one. For the life of me, I don't know why, IF she was involved in setting them up, she'd call someone & tell them what happened... If she's as 'street smart' as some say, then she'd have to know she shouldn't do that. All she would have had to do, is simply wait it out. Wait for LE to contact her, if they found her phone number on JC's cell records. All she had to do was sit tight & see if LE wanted to speak to her... THEN she could have simply said 'yes, I talked with him that night' & be done with it .... The bodies would have been found, another way, most likely by Lisa's parents, I guess, unless someone else was concerned about not seeing them around.

Tiffany making that phone call to her friend, really screwed her up, imo

(02-19-2011, 07:13 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 07:07 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:59 PM)concerned Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:57 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:54 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote: Agree

If that's true and she could hear that he felt he could handle it, then Tiffany wouldn't have gone over to the house concered. She would've just let Johnny "handle it".

People like that don't want to get involved in other people's business if it doesn't concern them. That's just asking for new enemies.

She went over to the house (and I believe she did) to cause more time to lapse, waste time.

I agree Toledonative

What I'm saying is look at her story. She also made it sound like there was yelling/fight going on. If you listen to the tapes again, Tiffany was concerned. After the phone hung up, she tried to call Lisa's phone and Johnny's phone and texted them. They wouldn't respond. So she had reason to be concerned. You wouldn't wait for your friend's mom to wake up so you could ask her if you can use her car to drive over and "check things out", you would've immediately called police or at least one of Johnny's tough guy friends. You wouldn't wait for a car and then take your big pregnant self over there alone. C'MON PEOPLE...keep believing Tiffany...

LOL, that's another question,....Did they wake the mom up(on the board she says they woke the mom up) or did they have to wait for her to come home(on the 911 call they had to wait for the mom to come home)?? Tiffany has said both!! Quack! Quack!

And Tiffany saying she had to wait for her friend's mom to wake up so she could ask her to use her car and also saying she had to wait for her mom's friend to get home from the store are pretty big details. She is just full of inconsistancies and actions that don't make sense.

That's not really something you would get mixed up on, like maybe you would get mixed up on Johnny either saying "bro who are you?" or "bro what are you doing?".

(02-19-2011, 06:43 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:06 PM)RJs-Ex Wrote: Anyone check out ZB's mom's FB?

Yep, I have. Seems her hubby and her spend A LOT of time doing the game thingies on Facebook.
Of course, I spend a lot of time here, so......

She's got an interesting name!

(02-19-2011, 07:21 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote: Is it me or did ZB delete Tiff and Aaron off his FB? I couldn't find them on his friends' list as I did before...

hahahah! If he did, I don't blame him. I'm sure a lot of folks might be trying to distance themselves, by now.

(02-19-2011, 07:28 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 07:21 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote: Is it me or did ZB delete Tiff and Aaron off his FB? I couldn't find them on his friends' list as I did before...

hahahah! If he did, I don't blame him. I'm sure a lot of folks might be trying to distance themselves, by now.

ZB no longer has Tiff OR Aaron on his friends list....I double checked Tiff's AND Aaron's fb pages too- they no longer have ZB on theirs.
Don't know what it means, I just was proud I found it. lmfao
Off topic....I always thought it would be easy to set up a P.I. business/catch a partner cheating/etc. for someone given the amount of info the social networks put out!

(02-19-2011, 07:24 PM)Jane Wrote: If Tiffany's involved, then she'll be arrested eventually. Until LE names her a suspect or person of interest, I don't think she is one. For the life of me, I don't know why, IF she was involved in setting them up, she'd call someone & tell them what happened... If she's as 'street smart' as some say, then she'd have to know she shouldn't do that. All she would have had to do, is simply wait it out. Wait for LE to contact her, if they found her phone number on JC's cell records. All she had to do was sit tight & see if LE wanted to speak to her... THEN she could have simply said 'yes, I talked with him that night' & be done with it .... The bodies would have been found, another way, most likely by Lisa's parents, I guess, unless someone else was concerned about not seeing them around.

Tiffany making that phone call to her friend, really screwed her up, imo

Because if Tiffany was just on the phone with Johnny so she could get Johnny and Lisa out of the house so the house could get robbed, then she would want to know what really happened, so sthat he would know what story to tell police. It makes sense that she needed to let alot of time to lapse and then to get involved since records would show that she had talked to Johnny and Lisa last. She needed to make it look like she was trying to alert people that something happened. If she sat back and was idle, that would really make her look suspicious. But time is key. She had to let time lapse and then find out what really went down without asking the people who did it.

(02-19-2011, 07:27 PM)RJs-Ex Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:43 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:06 PM)RJs-Ex Wrote: Anyone check out ZB's mom's FB?

Yep, I have. Seems her hubby and her spend A LOT of time doing the game thingies on Facebook.
Of course, I spend a lot of time here, so......

She's got an interesting name!

You mean her (ZB's mom's) last name RJ/EX?

(02-19-2011, 03:37 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: netsleuth brought it to my attention i misspelled "apropos" in an earlier post. (i doubled the P) i sure did, i hit the 'P' key twice rather than only once.

i won't however, spend pages trying to justify my typo by citing historic facts that have no bearing on my error or claiming my typo has roots in an ancient Brazilian tribe deep in the rainforest. . it's a boo-boo!

further she proclaimed she wanted her name banned here. she's never coming back.

again.

in view of that i wish to mention:
we don't delete/ban names. even the damned/banned are still named in the roster of illustrious Mockers, past and present. your presence is engraved in alabaster. and inscribed in the mists of time for all eternity.

carry on Mockers!
excuse the interruption

WTF brought that on? There had been no political discussion that I saw (unless it was another thread?).

Bizarre.

I have gone through many of the "friends" trying to figure out the gangs. I see several people posted that Donald and Aaron were Bloods. However, most of the language and info that I have seen by many of the other friends indicates that they were Crips.

Also, I found a picture on "Toledo Hoodz" FB page that appears to be Aaron, Ronald, Tiffany, and 2 others with the tag “1200WALBRIDGE DUBBLOCC.” Check it out and tell me what you think!!

Dom DeLuca: "Loc`d Out Crip 300 Western BkLOCC"
Mike Jaso (aka Ikey Trill Loc): "SOUTH END 300 WESTERN BLOCC LOCZ BITCH"
Mike Jaso: "Cruzin t da hood w my goon ap getin dis money smokein dis loud" ---Notice he mentions AP (Aaron)!
Jesse Vargas: Do ppl forget what happends to snitches..? it aint just stitches anymore!! January 30 at 4:22pm --same day as murder!!

In Vic Dominguez FB, I found a picture of a group of people with "Nuestra Familia" written across the picture. Unfortunately, this pic was small and became blurry when I enlarged it to try and make out some of the faces. So, does this indicate that Vic is part of the Nuestra Familia? If so, how do all these people from different gangs hang out together? This is what Vic posted on Johnny's online memorial:

February 08, 2011
JOHNNY ITS CRAZY THAT NIGHT OF WATCHIN THE PRO BOWL U TOLD ME VIC CALM DOWN LIFES TOO SHORT N TOMMOROW IS NEVER PROMISED TO ANYONE. I LUV U FOR THAT CUZ U WERE MY ONLY FRIEND THAT ALWAYS LOOKED OUT 4 ME N WANTED THE BEST 4 ME. IM GLAD U WAS MY NEIGHBOR N I GOT TO SPEND MY CHILDHOOD WIT U. N IM GLAD WE HUNG OUT LIKE WE DID THE LAST 2 WEEKS I HAD WIT U. I LUV U JOHNNY N GOD B WIT U N UR FAMILY. CLARKE FAMILY IM SO SORRY N ASK GOD TO GET U THROUGH THIS. I GUNNA MISS U CUBANO. U WAS LIKE A BROTHER. U WILL NEVER B FORGOTTEN JOHNNY BOY.

So, they grew up together in the same neighborhood and had just been hanging out together again for the 2 weeks before he was murdered. Hhmmm....

According to Bre (Vic's girlfriend) and Vic, they were with Johnny before he left to pick up Lisa from work.

"I`m Glad I Spent Part Of My Christmas W. The Two Of You. & Lisa , I`m Glad We Had That Talk The Weekend Before You Passed. & Johnny , I`m Glad I Got To See You Just A Few Hours Before You Passed. I`m SOO Sorry You Guys Had To Go Through That. Your Both Forever In Our Hearts. Love You Johnny. "Live Everyday Like It`s Your Last , Because Tomorrow Isn`t Promised" Rest In Peace Johnny Clarke & Lisa Straub ♥ (Bre Aiken RipJohnny)"

Does anyone else notice "I`m SOO Sorry You Guys Had To Go Through That" as being a strange thing to say?!?!?! If one of my friends were brutally murdered, I wouldn't think, I'm sorry that they HAD to go THROUGH that, it would be more like I can't believe this happened to them! Thoughts????

"When I spoke to his friends, the house he was at before he went to pick up Lisa from work where he had been playing his X-box Live, he told them, "I`m going to pick Lisa up from work. We`re going back to the house. We have people coming over. We`re going to shoot some pool." – Maytee on Jane Valez Mitchell

So, these are just a few of the notes that I have collected....

Agreed- I cannot think of a reason to bring duct tape for a robbery, it does seem out of place. Has it been confirmed that it was brought to the scene, and not found in the home, or garage? I may need to brush up on the news reports as I may of missed that. As far as robbery, or what they may of been looking for, I am totally lost on that.... so many things that could be, from what I have read thus far!

(02-19-2011, 07:31 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 07:24 PM)Jane Wrote: If Tiffany's involved, then she'll be arrested eventually. Until LE names her a suspect or person of interest, I don't think she is one. For the life of me, I don't know why, IF she was involved in setting them up, she'd call someone & tell them what happened... If she's as 'street smart' as some say, then she'd have to know she shouldn't do that. All she would have had to do, is simply wait it out. Wait for LE to contact her, if they found her phone number on JC's cell records. All she had to do was sit tight & see if LE wanted to speak to her... THEN she could have simply said 'yes, I talked with him that night' & be done with it .... The bodies would have been found, another way, most likely by Lisa's parents, I guess, unless someone else was concerned about not seeing them around.

Tiffany making that phone call to her friend, really screwed her up, imo

Because if Tiffany was just on the phone with Johnny so she could get Johnny and Lisa out of the house so the house could get robbed, then she would want to know what really happened, so sthat he would know what story to tell police. It makes sense that she needed to let alot of time to lapse and then to get involved since records would show that she had talked to Johnny and Lisa last. She needed to make it look like she was trying to alert people that something happened. If she sat back and was idle, that would really make her look suspicious. But time is key. She had to let time lapse and then find out what really went down without asking the people who did it.

Why would she need to know anything?? She could simply tell LE , 'yes, I spoke with Lisa about getting on Facebook' ...hell, she could have made anything up, as far as that goes. Instead she PUTS herself at the scene, & I don't think it was intentional. I think she really wanted to get hold of Johnny, regarding drugs, so she makes up the story about meeting up w/them to play pool. She can't be very smart, or she woudn't have put herself at the scene. Her making the lapse in time, makes no sense to me.

(02-19-2011, 07:34 PM)Inspector Gary Wrote: I have gone through many of the "friends" trying to figure out the gangs. I see several people posted that Donald and Aaron were Bloods. However, most of the language and info that I have seen by many of the other friends indicates that they were Crips.

Also, I found a picture on "Toledo Hoodz" FB page that appears to be Aaron, Ronald, Tiffany, and 2 others with the tag “1200WALBRIDGE DUBBLOCC.” Check it out and tell me what you think!!

Dom DeLuca: "Loc`d Out Crip 300 Western BkLOCC"
Mike Jaso (aka Ikey Trill Loc): "SOUTH END 300 WESTERN BLOCC LOCZ BITCH"
Mike Jaso: "Cruzin t da hood w my goon ap getin dis money smokein dis loud" ---Notice he mentions AP (Aaron)!
Jesse Vargas: Do ppl forget what happends to snitches..? it aint just stitches anymore!! January 30 at 4:22pm --same day as murder!!

In Vic Dominguez FB, I found a picture of a group of people with "Nuestra Familia" written across the picture. Unfortunately, this pic was small and became blurry when I enlarged it to try and make out some of the faces. So, does this indicate that Vic is part of the Nuestra Familia? If so, how do all these people from different gangs hang out together? This is what Vic posted on Johnny's online memorial:

February 08, 2011
JOHNNY ITS CRAZY THAT NIGHT OF WATCHIN THE PRO BOWL U TOLD ME VIC CALM DOWN LIFES TOO SHORT N TOMMOROW IS NEVER PROMISED TO ANYONE. I LUV U FOR THAT CUZ U WERE MY ONLY FRIEND THAT ALWAYS LOOKED OUT 4 ME N WANTED THE BEST 4 ME. IM GLAD U WAS MY NEIGHBOR N I GOT TO SPEND MY CHILDHOOD WIT U. N IM GLAD WE HUNG OUT LIKE WE DID THE LAST 2 WEEKS I HAD WIT U. I LUV U JOHNNY N GOD B WIT U N UR FAMILY. CLARKE FAMILY IM SO SORRY N ASK GOD TO GET U THROUGH THIS. I GUNNA MISS U CUBANO. U WAS LIKE A BROTHER. U WILL NEVER B FORGOTTEN JOHNNY BOY.

So, they grew up together in the same neighborhood and had just been hanging out together again for the 2 weeks before he was murdered. Hhmmm....

According to Bre (Vic's girlfriend) and Vic, they were with Johnny before he left to pick up Lisa from work.

"I`m Glad I Spent Part Of My Christmas W. The Two Of You. & Lisa , I`m Glad We Had That Talk The Weekend Before You Passed. & Johnny , I`m Glad I Got To See You Just A Few Hours Before You Passed. I`m SOO Sorry You Guys Had To Go Through That. Your Both Forever In Our Hearts. Love You Johnny. "Live Everyday Like It`s Your Last , Because Tomorrow Isn`t Promised" Rest In Peace Johnny Clarke & Lisa Straub ♥ (Bre Aiken RipJohnny)"

Does anyone else notice "I`m SOO Sorry You Guys Had To Go Through That" as being a strange thing to say?!?!?! If one of my friends were brutally murdered, I wouldn't think, I'm sorry that they HAD to go THROUGH that, it would be more like I can't believe this happened to them! Thoughts????

"When I spoke to his friends, the house he was at before he went to pick up Lisa from work where he had been playing his X-box Live, he told them, "I`m going to pick Lisa up from work. We`re going back to the house. We have people coming over. We`re going to shoot some pool." – Maytee on Jane Valez Mitchell

So, these are just a few of the notes that I have collected....

I'm from the same area in Toledo that Johnny and his friends are from. These kids change gangs like you change your underwear. This isn't Compton, it's a fake wanna be Detroit. Girls change depending on who they are dating, etc. Toledo is full of wanna be gang bangers and wanna be big time drug dealers. I'm not too surprised if they are claiming one set on one page and another the next week.

(02-19-2011, 08:22 AM)Duchess Wrote:

I won't presume to know what their security system is but, I have security & if the wires were cut on it the cops would be screaming down my road in a matter of moments.

Lisa's uncle said the system had been deactivated. Not sure if he meant just that night or like they canceled an alarm company contract (maybe months ago).

I just realized I'm 30 pages behind in this thread. FUCK!

(02-19-2011, 08:35 AM)Momforlife Wrote: First time posting... So bear with me... I live in the area of these murders... And I am surprised how little news we are hearing. Word is there has been an arrest, but I am unable to verify that right now. I don't want to post anything that has not been substantiated. But, will as soon as I hear factual information, I will. I have an opinion on this, as you all do too... But am not comfortable posting it yet...

Looking forward to hearing your opinion.