George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison would not be electable today based on their religious views.
(09-02-2015, 11:06 AM)BlueTiki Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015, 10:47 AM)Donovan Wrote: [ -> ]Of course that would make her a complete whore and I'm pretty sure the Bible has some rules on that too.
Or a foot soldier in the "War Against Women".
Jesus hung with whores.
But not at strip clubs.
Jesus hung with his wife and loved her better than the others, so when he got smoked they changed the narrative in order to strip power from her. The Man been keepin bitches down ever since.
Jefferson on religion Wrote:"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
Source: Thomas Jefferson, "Religion" in Notes on the State of Virginia (1782), p. 286.Source: Thomas Jefferson, "Religion" in Notes on the State of Virginia (1782), p. 287.
"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
Source: Thomas Jefferson, "The Virginia Legislature, Review and Reform of the Law," in Autobiography.
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814.
That would be the author of the Declaration you quoted. The one whose original words were this:
Thomas motherfuckin Jefferson, bitch Wrote:All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable.
No mention of God or creators there.
Thomas Paine, author and father of the revolution Wrote:I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church. (Age of Reason)
Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, t renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as ameans of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter.(Age of Reason)
.we must be compelled to hold this doctrine to be false, and the old and new law called the Old and New Testament, to be impositions, fables and forgeries. (The Life and Works of Thomas Paine, Vol. 9 p. 282)
You get the picture. I could quote Paine's entire book, he HATED religion, especially Xtianity and what it represented.
Treaty of Tripoli, article 11 1796 Wrote:As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Written during the presidency of Washington, signed under John Adams.
Speaking of the latter:
John Adams Wrote:The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?
-- letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815
The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.
-- "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88)
Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.
-- "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88)
We should begin by setting conscience free. When all men of all religions ... shall enjoy equal liberty, property, and an equal chance for honors and power ... we may expect that improvements will be made in the human character and the state of society.
-- letter to Dr. Price, April 8, 1785
We think ourselves possessed, or, at least, we boast that we are so, of liberty of conscience on all subjects, and of the right of free inquiry and private judgment in all cases, and yet how far are we from these exalted privileges in fact! There exists, I believe, throughout the whole Christian world, a law which makes it blasphemy to deny or doubt the divine inspiration of all the books of the Old and New Testaments, from Genesis to Revelations. In most countries of Europe it is punished by fire at the stake, or the rack, or the wheel. In England itself it is punished by boring through the tongue with a red-hot poker. In America it is not better; even in our own Massachusetts, which I believe, upon the whole, is as temperate and moderate in religious zeal as most of the States, a law was made in the latter end of the last century, repealing the cruel punishments of the former laws, but substituting fine and imprisonment upon all those blasphemers upon any book of the Old Testament or New. ... I think such laws a great embarrassment, great obstructions to the improvement of the human mind. Books that cannot bear examination, certainly ought not to be established as divine inspiration by penal laws.
-- one of his last letters to Thomas Jefferson, January 23, 1825.
Did YOU want a few hundred more? Politicians have been giving lip service to religion forever. They have to in a system that glorifies the best panderers. But there is little question that the founding fathers were Deists and Naturists who thought organized religion was a relic better done away with.
Some of the Founding Fathers were Deists, more were Christians.
Regardless of what the individual Founding Fathers wrote in regards to their personal beliefs about religion and how it should or shouldn't apply to the nation, it's what's in the Constitution that reflects their intentions for how the nation should be governed and establishes the foundation for our laws. They intentionally established a secular nation, thank God (whichever God or gods you please, if you so please).
The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment is clear: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
So, individuals are free to worship and practice any religion they like in this country. The government can't legally force a religion upon individuals, nor can it legally prohibit individuals from practicing/exercising their chosen religion.
In turn, individuals are bound by the laws of our secular land, regardless of their personal religious/non-secular beliefs.
(09-02-2015, 10:47 AM)Donovan Wrote: [ -> ]Someone this morning posited a theory that this broad is aiming for public martyrdom so she can get fired, start a go fund me account, and get paid. It ain't a bad play. She gets tons of ultraconservative support and those people throw money at everything they like. Of course that would make her a complete whore and I'm pretty sure the Bible has some rules on that too.
That sounds scarily probable.
If she worked for some religious organization, I would support her in THEIR religious beliefs against conducting gay marriages. I can even somewhat understand the privately owned cake/flower shop that elected not to serve gay couples. But she works for the government (separation of church and state) so she has no rights, as far as I'm concerned, to insert her religious beliefs in to government business.
(09-03-2015, 12:45 AM)username Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015, 10:47 AM)Donovan Wrote: [ -> ]Someone this morning posited a theory that this broad is aiming for public martyrdom so she can get fired, start a go fund me account, and get paid. It ain't a bad play. She gets tons of ultraconservative support and those people throw money at everything they like. Of course that would make her a complete whore and I'm pretty sure the Bible has some rules on that too.
That sounds scarily probable.
If she worked for some religious organization, I would support her in THEIR religious beliefs against conducting gay marriages. I can even somewhat understand the privately owned cake/flower shop that elected not to serve gay couples. But she works for the government (separation of church and state) so she has no rights, as far as I'm concerned, to insert her religious beliefs in to government business.
Exactly.
I used to work for the govt. And although not religious beliefs were the problem, there were things that I was compelled to do that I
had issues with. But I completed my job as was expected of me, because "it was my job" that they paid me to do, and I did it!
The end.
So this really is a very interesting discussion. In my opinion Kimmy really has two choices here in her role as Clerk: she can either have her office carry out the duties as they are supposed to, or she can resign because carrying out those duties causes her personal conflict.
Her attempt to classify herself as a civilian conscientious objector is a novel approach, but probably has little chance of success. Imagine if government employees could claim conscientious objector status! What an even bigger fuckaroo we'd have on our hands.
However, Kimmy is just following plenty of other government employees who have willfully and arrogantly chosen to ignore laws. Government officials take an oath to uphold the Constitution, the laws of the land. They don't take an oath to only uphold the parts they are fond of, but in many instances that is exactly what happens. I call it a form of legal relativism, and at every level that is dangerous for our republic. We either follow the law or we don't - the ordered society demands that, or we slouch towards something else.
The disorder and mayhem is almost complete. What's needed is more immigrants so America can become like Europe. What would help to complete the goal is a complete disintegration of authority, maybe a few more riots and for the cherry on top take away the ability to defend oneself.
Only then can utopia become eligible for consideration.
(09-03-2015, 09:51 AM)Maggot Wrote: [ -> ]The disorder and mayhem is almost complete. What's needed is more immigrants so America can become like Europe. What would help to complete the goal is a complete disintegration of authority, maybe a few more riots and for the cherry on top take away the ability to defend oneself.
Only then can utopia become eligible for consideration.
We need a good protest to get a riot started. HoTD? You down GF?
(09-03-2015, 10:49 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2015, 09:51 AM)Maggot Wrote: [ -> ]The disorder and mayhem is almost complete. What's needed is more immigrants so America can become like Europe. What would help to complete the goal is a complete disintegration of authority, maybe a few more riots and for the cherry on top take away the ability to defend oneself.
Only then can utopia become eligible for consideration.
We need a good protest to get a riot started. HoTD? You down GF?
Hey BF Gunnar, it used to kind of surprise me how you were unable to comprehend that support of free speech and peaceful protest for all American citizens (you know, per the First Amendment) does not equate to support of the specific protest messages; nor does it equate to support of riots. It's such a simple concept, really.
I'm no longer surprised by your inability to grasp it though. Finding out yesterday that you didn't even know what county you were living in as an adult (nor that a city lies within a county, and not the other way around) explained a lot about your mental capacity.
It's sometimes funny though, so there's that...
(09-03-2015, 11:20 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2015, 10:49 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2015, 09:51 AM)Maggot Wrote: [ -> ]The disorder and mayhem is almost complete. What's needed is more immigrants so America can become like Europe. What would help to complete the goal is a complete disintegration of authority, maybe a few more riots and for the cherry on top take away the ability to defend oneself.
Only then can utopia become eligible for consideration.
We need a good protest to get a riot started. HoTD? You down GF?
Hey BF Gunnar, it used to kind of surprise me how you were unable to comprehend that support of free speech and peaceful protest for all American citizens (you know, per the First Amendment) does not equate to support of the specific protest messages; nor does it equate to support of riots. It's such a simple concept, really.
I'm no longer surprised by your inability to grasp it though. Finding out yesterday that you didn't even know what county you were living in as an adult (nor that a city lies within a county, and not the other way around) explained a lot about your mental capacity.
You're funny though, so there's that...
I was a child so...
How you were unable to gleam that from the post speaks to your intellectual limitations. An adult in 1974? How fucking old do you think I am?
BTW, hows life in Ferguson these days? Failsauce.
^ Seriously, Dim, I think your cousins Half and Nit have exceeded you in the brain-power department.
You were an adult yesterday when you didn't know what county you'd previously lived in. And, you were an adult yesterday when you didn't know that the county of Bexar would encompass the city of San Antonio, and not the other way around.
But, it's admirable that you at least acknowledge the sadly funny fact that you are no more educated as an adult than you were as a child, Gunnar.
(09-03-2015, 11:44 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2015, 11:36 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2015, 11:20 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2015, 10:49 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2015, 09:51 AM)Maggot Wrote: [ -> ]The disorder and mayhem is almost complete. What's needed is more immigrants so America can become like Europe. What would help to complete the goal is a complete disintegration of authority, maybe a few more riots and for the cherry on top take away the ability to defend oneself.
Only then can utopia become eligible for consideration.
We need a good protest to get a riot started. HoTD? You down GF?
Hey BF Gunnar, it used to kind of surprise me how you were unable to comprehend that support of free speech and peaceful protest for all American citizens (you know, per the First Amendment) does not equate to support of the specific protest messages; nor does it equate to support of riots. It's such a simple concept, really.
I'm no longer surprised by your inability to grasp it though. Finding out yesterday that you didn't even know what county you were living in as an adult (nor that a city lies within a county, and not the other way around) explained a lot about your mental capacity.
You're funny though, so there's that...
I was a child so... How you were unable to gleam that from the post speaks to your intellectual limitations. BTW, hows life in Ferguson these days? Failsauce.
Seriously, Dim, I think your cousins Half and Nit have exceeded you in the brain-power department.
You were an adult yesterday when you didn't know what county you'd previously lived in. And, you were an adult yesterday when you didn't know that the county of Brexar would encompass the city of San Antonio,and not the other way around.
But, it's admirable that you at least acknowledge the fact that you are no more educated as an adult than you were as a child.
Just admit defeat. You think I was an adult in 1974. And there is no such county in Texas called Brexar
(09-03-2015, 11:47 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: [ -> ]Just admit defeat. You think I was an adult in 1974. And there is no such county in Texas called Brexar
Consider yourself victorious Gunnar. You saw that I posted a misspelled name before I immediately edited/corrected it.
You're a winner Gunnar, yes you are.
(09-03-2015, 12:29 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2015, 11:47 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: [ -> ]Just admit defeat. You think I was an adult in 1974. And there is no such county in Texas called Brexar
Consider yourself victorious Gunnar. You saw that I posted a misspelled name before I immediately edited/corrected it.
You're a winner Gunnar, yes you are.
You never answered my question. How's life in Ferguson these days HoTD?
(09-03-2015, 12:51 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2015, 12:29 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2015, 11:47 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: [ -> ]Just admit defeat. You think I was an adult in 1974. And there is no such county in Texas called Brexar
Consider yourself victorious Gunnar. You saw that I posted a misspelled name before I immediately edited/corrected it.
You're a winner Gunnar, yes you are.
You never answered my question. How's life in Ferguson these days HoTD?
I don't live in Ferguson, Gunnar. So, obviously I can't give you an assessment of life in Ferguson.
I can however tell you with complete certainty that it's located in St. Louis County, Missouri.
I can also tell you that gay marriage is as legal in Ferguson as it is everywhere else in the country, and that county clerks there are obligated to issue marriage certificates to both gay and straight couples.
Knucklehead.
The bitch, oh, I mean the county clerk, has been taken into custody and is being held in contempt . Will stay put until she decided to do her job and issues licenses to all applicants
(09-03-2015, 01:10 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2015, 12:51 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2015, 12:29 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2015, 11:47 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: [ -> ]Just admit defeat. You think I was an adult in 1974. And there is no such county in Texas called Brexar
Consider yourself victorious Gunnar. You saw that I posted a misspelled name before I immediately edited/corrected it.
You're a winner Gunnar, yes you are.
You never answered my question. How's life in Ferguson these days HoTD?
I don't live in Ferguson, Gunnar. So, obviously I can't give you an assessment of life in Ferguson.
I can however tell you with complete certainty that it's located in St. Louis County, Missouri.
I can also tell you that gay marriage is as legal in Ferguson as it is everywhere else in the country, and that county clerks there are obligated to issue marriage certificates to both gay and straight couples.
Knucklehead.
Last I heard a 9 year old little girl was killed while those good folks were exercising their 1
st amendment rights during another protest. Tragic. Property values continue to plummet as well. Those protests seem to have had a long lasting negative affect on Ferguson. #blacklivesmatter, #policelivesmatter, #livesmatter... Who could have predicted such a horrible affect those protests have had? Me.
(09-03-2015, 01:28 PM)QueenBee Wrote: [ -> ]The bitch, oh, I mean the county clerk, has been taken into custody and is being held in contempt . Will stay put until she decided to do her job and issues licenses to all applicants
Thanks for the update QueenBee.
No surprise; she had no legal ground upon which to stand.
I think the court got it right.
Quick.............marry the fags before she gets out!!! Geez!!