Mock - GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

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(06-16-2016, 06:08 PM)F.U. Wrote: [ -> ]BBH, just judging from your comment about concealed weapons, I assume you don't agree with people having the right to carry a firearm. If so, why?

Oh gosh, I am running out of breath....I have been a little outspoken for tighter gun controls.......

America, America, home of the brave, land of the free, and home to the most mass murders in the World....I am sick of our violent, gun culture.....it is out of control. We go through far more red tape to get a driver's license, to obtain insurance, to get approval for loan and the list goes on.....want a gun....no problem.......

My family has always owned guns, they are hunters, my grandchildren were handling guns and hunting at a very young age......but they don't leave the house every day with a gun because they think they need to defend themselves on any given day.....I am more afraid of those who carry all the time....I think if you feel the need to protect yourself 24/7, you probably need to be in a padded cell and given meds twice a day.....

There are a lot of crazies out there who are just itching to fire their guns at someone....if you think you protect yourself with a mass murderer on a rampage, i think you are mistaken.....They use element of surprise and weapons designed to take out a lot of people. You and your gun would not have a chance and you would probably get shot with your gun still in the holster. If you want to keep a gun in your home for a possible intruder, I totally agree that you have that right.

To me, my rights for pursuit of happiness supersedes your individual right to carry a weapon, which is designed to kill, on the street. I shouldn't be afraid to shop for fear of a crazy gun toting fool walking down the aisles....and having to wonder, is he a good guy or is he a bad guy.

I consider politicians giving preferable treatment to campaign donators corruption. I also think raising the minimum wage to 15.00 is counter productive and a tool used by politicians to garnish votes from a knee jerk population. Its pitiful really and the hook is not just set but swallowed whole by the herd. It's not that hard to see, actually IMO.

And this is for you B.H. just because I know you appreciate the truth.

Obama said after the church shootings in Charleston that "this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. It doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency."

The data shows that it clearly happens in other countries, and in at least three of them, there’s evidence that the rate of killings in mass-shooting events occurred at a higher per-capita rate than in the United States between 2000 and 2014. The only partial support for Obama’s claim is that the per-capita gun-incident fatality rate in the United States does rank in the top one-third of the list of 11 countries studied. On balance, we rate the claim Mostly False.

Facts

(06-16-2016, 09:31 PM)Maggot Wrote: [ -> ]I consider politicians giving preferable treatment to campaign donators corruption. I also think raising the minimum wage to 15.00 is counter productive and a tool used by politicians to garnish votes from a knee jerk population. Its pitiful really and the hook is not just set but swallowed whole by the herd. It's not that hard to see, actually IMO.

I see clearly, Mags.

(06-16-2016, 09:44 PM)Maggot Wrote: [ -> ]And this is for you B.H. just because I know you appreciate the truth.

Obama said after the church shootings in Charleston that "this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. It doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency."

The data shows that it clearly happens in other countries, and in at least three of them, there’s evidence that the rate of killings in mass-shooting events occurred at a higher per-capita rate than in the United States between 2000 and 2014. The only partial support for Obama’s claim is that the per-capita gun-incident fatality rate in the United States does rank in the top one-third of the list of 11 countries studied. On balance, we rate the claim Mostly False.

Facts

Here's the direct link to the Facts: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...appen-oth/

Obama made a couple of misleading or 'mostly false' statements in that speech, in my opinion. And, I like PolitiFact. But, their fact checker did a very poor job analyzing this particular statement.

Statement, as I heard it: "This type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries; it doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency."

If one interprets the second sentence to be a qualifier for the first one and the word "frequency" to refer to "how often" rather than "number of fatalities per capita', then Obama's statement is true -- as confirmed by the fact checker's stats chart and quote below:

[Image: NA-CH404_SHOOTR_9U_20151004180908.jpg]

[Image: NA-CH404_SHOOTR_9U_20151004180908.jpg]

'The chart does show that the United States has more mass shootings -- and more people cumulatively killed or injured -- than the other 10 nations combined..'

It doesn't make any sense to me that the fact checker interpreted 'frequency" to mean "number of fatalities per capita'' rather than "how often incidents occured", but it doesn't really matter.

In my opinion, mass shootings happen too often in the U.S., period. And, mass shootings happen much more often in the US than any other advanced country -- that's not disputed.

(06-16-2016, 09:23 PM)blueberryhill Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-16-2016, 06:08 PM)F.U. Wrote: [ -> ]BBH, just judging from your comment about concealed weapons, I assume you don't agree with people having the right to carry a firearm. If so, why?

Oh gosh, I am running out of breath....I have been a little outspoken for tighter gun controls.......

America, America, home of the brave, land of the free, and home to the most mass murders in the World....I am sick of our violent, gun culture.....it is out of control. We go through far more red tape to get a driver's license, to obtain insurance, to get approval for loan and the list goes on.....want a gun....no problem.......

My family has always owned guns, they are hunters, my grandchildren were handling guns and hunting at a very young age......but they don't leave the house every day with a gun because they think they need to defend themselves on any given day.....I am more afraid of those who carry all the time....I think if you feel the need to protect yourself 24/7, you probably need to be in a padded cell and given meds twice a day.....

There are a lot of crazies out there who are just itching to fire their guns at someone....if you think you protect yourself with a mass murderer on a rampage, i think you are mistaken.....They use element of surprise and weapons designed to take out a lot of people. You and your gun would not have a chance and you would probably get shot with your gun still in the holster. If you want to keep a gun in your home for a possible intruder, I totally agree that you have that right.

To me, my rights for pursuit of happiness supersedes your individual right to carry a weapon, which is designed to kill, on the street. I shouldn't be afraid to shop for fear of a crazy gun toting fool walking down the aisles....and having to wonder, is he a good guy or is he a bad guy.

Fair enough, but why does it always end up with name calling? People that want to legally carry a firearm and jump through the hoops to do so are not crazy. Just as I don't feel that people that are anti guns are crazy.

You walk in fear of people that carry guns? Really. I can understand the worry when it comes to the crooks and thugs that do and will carry a gun anyways, but to fear the person that earns that right? I just don't understand that train of thought.

Also how does your right for pursuit of happiness supersede my right of pursuit of happiness? I enjoy all things firearm, they make me happy, shooting them, cleaning, them selling them, collecting them and yes being ably to carry one under my shirt for protection, it all makes me happy, but just because they don't make you happy I should lose that joy?

Not trying to be a ass here , I am really trying to understand the thought behind this.

(06-16-2016, 08:31 PM)sally Wrote: [ -> ]Also if you can't afford or save up $2000 for something you really want then you're not an average Joe, you're a broke ass nigga.

Shit Cuz, we aint all rich mo fo's like you. Somes of uz haz to live first of da mont to first of da mont. But youz keeps workin an payn da man so weez can keep gitin dem checks, OK.

(06-16-2016, 06:04 PM)blueberryhill Wrote: [ -> ]Wasn't it your State, Hair, which stated that the 2^nd amendment does not guarantee your right to carry concealed weapon? Kudos to that State.....

First, I think the 2^nd amendment needs to be clarified so that people can be clear on what it says and doesn't say......does anyone think laws should be updated to keep up with the times? I dunno know, just think that when we refer to laws made 200 years or more ago, we might see a need to keep up with the times....When 2^nd amendment was signed, we were using muskets as our weapon against our invaders and not firearms who kill maximum people in minimum time...

Yes, blueberry. The 7 - 4 decision by the California Appeals Courts last week in San Francisco ruled to uphold the state law requiring civilians to provide a compelling reason or "cause" to carry a firearm in public (in order to be eligible for a concealed carry permit).

Snip:
"The protection of the Second Amendment — whatever the scope of that protection may be — simply does not extend to the carrying of concealed firearms in public by members of the general public."

The court declined to say whether the Constitution protects openly carrying a gun in public. It said that question was not at issue in the case.

Gun owners in two California counties challenged the requirement that they show "good cause," as defined by county sheriffs, before they could get concealed carry permits.

Thursday's majority opinion traced the rights of gun owners from medieval England to the founding of the United States and through the Civil War, finding that local laws almost universally prohibited carrying concealed firearms in public.

Source: NBC News
Other: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me...story.html

Gun Legislation -- Senate Votes on Monday

Like MS, pundits are united in their belief that none of the four bills that will be voted on Monday will get the needed 60 votes to move forward.

I hope they're wrong. If they're right, I hope the public keeps the pressure on lawmakers of both parties, especially Republicans, so that some progress can be made before the end of this year.

This unwillingness to-date of the parties to work together on behalf of the public they're sworn to serve is insane, in my opinion. Universal Background checks, No Sale to Terrorist Suspects, and Stronger Enforcement of Existing Gun Laws are each supported by over 80% of the population, regardless of party affiliation.

The Measures:
1. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., authored the terror watch list measure. It would allow federal investigators to block gun purchases by people who they are scrutinizing for possible links to terrorism.

2. The Senate will also vote on an alternative to Feinstein, sponsored by Sen. John Cornyn, that would put in place a three-day delay for gun purchases by people on the terror watch list. Cornyn's bill would require the federal government to prove in court that the purchaser should not own a weapon.

3. A third measure, sponsored by Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., would require background checks at gun shows.

4. Senators will also consider legislation sponsored by Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, that aims to increase prosecutions of people who try to illegally purchase guns, and ensure those will mental illness can't buy them.

Senators will vote on the measures as amendments to the fiscal 2017 Commerce, Justice, Science and related agencies spending bill.

While there may be majorities for some of these ideas, the Monday votes are votes to end debate on the proposals, which require a 60-vote supermajority, a steep hurdle given how split the two parties are between the proposals. If any do get 60 votes, the next step would be a vote to add them to the spending bill.

The Republicans have long been critical of expanding background checks, making it unlikely Murphy's bill will pass. In the House, Republicans say they have no plans to take up legislation that would block people on the terror watch list from buying guns.

Ref: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/senate...le/2594154

I don't think someone's irrational fear of another person carrying a concealed firearm (with a permit) is any reason to change the laws as they stand on the books right now. When bloodthirsty gun owners with concealed carry permits start opening fire in crowded grocery stores, then maybe we should take a look. Just a thought.

I don't think it makes a difference if the bloodthirsty American gun owner with a CC permit opens fire in a grocery store or a gay club, personally.

It's also concerning to me that other failed wanna-be cops (like Zimmerman) and unstable citizens are running around with permitted guns.

But, those are Florida's laws and it's up to the states and localities to determine who gets permitted to pack in public. There's no proposal to change that right now.

Feinstein had a concealed carry at one time, it was during the time when Patty Hurst was kidnapped and she feared for her life. Today she has a government safety net. She has since repented and found God in her socks. They actually smell like Jesus but who cares at this point.

(06-17-2016, 03:48 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think it makes a difference if the bloodthirsty American gun owner with a CC permit opens fire in a grocery store or a gay club, personally.

It's also concerning to me that other failed wanna-be cops (like Zimmerman) and unstable citizens are running around with permitted guns.

But, those are Florida's laws and it's up to the states and localities to determine who gets permitted to pack in public. There's no proposal to change that right now.

Why leave cops out of the mix? Just lump everyone together. That always has a way of turning out well. Why differentiate between terrorists, the mentally ill and those with badges who exercise poor judgement? Make all guns illegal so that only criminals have them.

(06-17-2016, 12:59 AM)F.U. Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-16-2016, 09:23 PM)blueberryhill Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-16-2016, 06:08 PM)F.U. Wrote: [ -> ]BBH, just judging from your comment about concealed weapons, I assume you don't agree with people having the right to carry a firearm. If so, why?

Oh gosh, I am running out of breath....I have been a little outspoken for tighter gun controls.......

America, America, home of the brave, land of the free, and home to the most mass murders in the World....I am sick of our violent, gun culture.....it is out of control. We go through far more red tape to get a driver's license, to obtain insurance, to get approval for loan and the list goes on.....want a gun....no problem.......

My family has always owned guns, they are hunters, my grandchildren were handling guns and hunting at a very young age......but they don't leave the house every day with a gun because they think they need to defend themselves on any given day.....I am more afraid of those who carry all the time....I think if you feel the need to protect yourself 24/7, you probably need to be in a padded cell and given meds twice a day.....

There are a lot of crazies out there who are just itching to fire their guns at someone....if you think you protect yourself with a mass murderer on a rampage, i think you are mistaken.....They use element of surprise and weapons designed to take out a lot of people. You and your gun would not have a chance and you would probably get shot with your gun still in the holster. If you want to keep a gun in your home for a possible intruder, I totally agree that you have that right.

To me, my rights for pursuit of happiness supersedes your individual right to carry a weapon, which is designed to kill, on the street. I shouldn't be afraid to shop for fear of a crazy gun toting fool walking down the aisles....and having to wonder, is he a good guy or is he a bad guy.

Fair enough, but why does it always end up with name calling? People that want to legally carry a firearm and jump through the hoops to do so are not crazy. Just as I don't feel that people that are anti guns are crazy.

You walk in fear of people that carry guns? Really. I can understand the worry when it comes to the crooks and thugs that do and will carry a gun anyways, but to fear the person that earns that right? I just don't understand that train of thought.

Also how does your right for pursuit of happiness supersede my right of pursuit of happiness? I enjoy all things firearm, they make me happy, shooting them, cleaning, them selling them, collecting them and yes being ably to carry one under my shirt for protection, it all makes me happy, but just because they don't make you happy I should lose that joy?

Not trying to be a ass here , I am really trying to understand the thought behind this.

My thoughts are very simplistic....our country has become too violent. I want it to stop. Pursuing our lives (happiness or not), we go to school, send our kids and grand kids to school, dine out, go to movies, go shopping in the mall, go to work, etc. That could be a death sentence today because just about anyone can purchase a gun.....
and we don't know just looking around who is crazy or not.....I wasn't name calling FU.....if the shoe fits........there are too many crazies buying firearms and I am not feeling safe about that...It is not about me, but about the environment I am leaving for my grandchildren. Will their kids be so desensitized to mass killings, that they will accept it as a way of life?

Anyone with common sense IMO, sees the logic of having tougher gun laws.... I won't repeat the lists of everything else we do in life to achieve something we want, e.g. just one example, would be a driver's license.....Most logical people agree with this.
Why would you or anyone else disagree. Why do you have this unreasonable fear that it will lead to the Gov't taking away all your guns? No one wants to take your stinking guns, but there needs to be a process which if followed, should reduce number of some would be killers. Don't use the old "oh, they will find a way to get a gun," more and more of the standard, negative rhetoric that "we just can't do anything about this out of control gun violence in our country. You then are part of the problem.......

I am pleased that these grass roots organizations are getting louder and standing up to the NRA.....and I think eventually, they will prevail....

BG mentioned in his post about the irrational fear that myself and others have toward people carrying in retail stores, etc......I think the irrational person here is the person that has to carry his "gun" in plain sight walking down the aisle of Target. Is it rational to think you might have to defend yourself on any given day in Target, Sears, JC Penney, etc......You and BG can't see or understand why that might make us feel somewhat irrational......Do you seriously think you have to carry your gun every day to protect yourself? If so, yes, I repeat, I think you are suffering from paranoia and need to be on medications......

I am tired of trying to explain what is to me, just common sense....and I know you aren't being a smart ass and I have, hopefully, answered your question. I just got back from doctor's office. I thought I was dying of toxic shock from my surgery, but doctor said it is normal to still have bleeding and discharge....well, he should have told me it would take 2 to 3 months to heal.....anyway, don't bug me again today, O.K.?

(06-17-2016, 05:11 PM)blueberryhill Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-17-2016, 12:59 AM)F.U. Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-16-2016, 09:23 PM)blueberryhill Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-16-2016, 06:08 PM)F.U. Wrote: [ -> ]BBH, just judging from your comment about concealed weapons, I assume you don't agree with people having the right to carry a firearm. If so, why?

Oh gosh, I am running out of breath....I have been a little outspoken for tighter gun controls.......

America, America, home of the brave, land of the free, and home to the most mass murders in the World....I am sick of our violent, gun culture.....it is out of control. We go through far more red tape to get a driver's license, to obtain insurance, to get approval for loan and the list goes on.....want a gun....no problem.......

My family has always owned guns, they are hunters, my grandchildren were handling guns and hunting at a very young age......but they don't leave the house every day with a gun because they think they need to defend themselves on any given day.....I am more afraid of those who carry all the time....I think if you feel the need to protect yourself 24/7, you probably need to be in a padded cell and given meds twice a day.....

There are a lot of crazies out there who are just itching to fire their guns at someone....if you think you protect yourself with a mass murderer on a rampage, i think you are mistaken.....They use element of surprise and weapons designed to take out a lot of people. You and your gun would not have a chance and you would probably get shot with your gun still in the holster. If you want to keep a gun in your home for a possible intruder, I totally agree that you have that right.

To me, my rights for pursuit of happiness supersedes your individual right to carry a weapon, which is designed to kill, on the street. I shouldn't be afraid to shop for fear of a crazy gun toting fool walking down the aisles....and having to wonder, is he a good guy or is he a bad guy.

Fair enough, but why does it always end up with name calling? People that want to legally carry a firearm and jump through the hoops to do so are not crazy. Just as I don't feel that people that are anti guns are crazy.

You walk in fear of people that carry guns? Really. I can understand the worry when it comes to the crooks and thugs that do and will carry a gun anyways, but to fear the person that earns that right? I just don't understand that train of thought.

Also how does your right for pursuit of happiness supersede my right of pursuit of happiness? I enjoy all things firearm, they make me happy, shooting them, cleaning, them selling them, collecting them and yes being ably to carry one under my shirt for protection, it all makes me happy, but just because they don't make you happy I should lose that joy?

Not trying to be a ass here , I am really trying to understand the thought behind this.

My thoughts are very simplistic....our country has become too violent. I want it to stop. Pursuing our lives (happiness or not), we go to school, send our kids and grand kids to school, dine out, go to movies, go shopping in the mall, go to work, etc. That could be a death sentence today because just about anyone can purchase a gun.....
and we don't know just looking around who is crazy or not.....I wasn't name calling FU.....if the shoe fits........there are too many crazies buying firearms and I am not feeling safe about that...It is not about me, but about the environment I am leaving for my grandchildren. Will their kids be so desensitized to mass killings, that they will accept it as a way of life?

Anyone with common sense IMO, sees the logic of having tougher gun laws.... I won't repeat the lists of everything else we do in life to achieve something we want, e.g. just one example, would be a driver's license.....Most logical people agree with this.
Why would you or anyone else disagree. Why do you have this unreasonable fear that it will lead to the Gov't taking away all your guns? No one wants to take your stinking guns, but there needs to be a process which if followed, should reduce number of some would be killers. Don't use the old "oh, they will find a way to get a gun," more and more of the standard, negative rhetoric that "we just can't do anything about this out of control gun violence in our country. You then are part of the problem.......

I am pleased that these grass roots organizations are getting louder and standing up to the NRA.....and I think eventually, they will prevail....

BG mentioned in his post about the irrational fear that myself and others have toward people carrying in retail stores, etc......I think the irrational person here is the person that has to carry his "gun" in plain sight walking down the aisle of Target. Is it rational to think you might have to defend yourself on any given day in Target, Sears, JC Penney, etc......You and BG can't see or understand why that might make us feel somewhat irrational......Do you seriously think you have to carry your gun every day to protect yourself? If so, yes, I repeat, I think you are suffering from paranoia and need to be on medications......

I am tired of trying to explain what is to me, just common sense....and I know you aren't being a smart ass and I have, hopefully, answered your question. I just got back from doctor's office. I thought I was dying of toxic shock from my surgery, but doctor said it is normal to still have bleeding and discharge....well, he should have told me it would take 2 to 3 months to heal.....anyway, don't bug me again today, O.K.?

First of all, I don't carry a gun. Secondly, no, it doesn't make me at all uncomfortable when I see someone else carrying one.

I would be exceedingly uncomfortable seeing a gun in public now. I would be moving in the opposite direction like my ass was on fire.

(06-17-2016, 05:28 PM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]

I would be exceedingly uncomfortable seeing a gun in public now. I would be moving in the opposite direction like my ass was on fire.

I think this goes back to FU's (or was it Maggs?) claim that some study showed that women are afraid of guns. Personally, I don't get it. Just the mere sight of a holstered gun creates fear inside of you? Do military vehicles and cop cars cause the same kind of fear? How does someone go through their life in fear of an inanimate object?

(06-17-2016, 05:41 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: [ -> ]I think this goes back to FU's (or was it Maggs?) claim that some study showed that women are afraid of guns. Personally, I don't get it. Just the mere sight of a holstered gun creates fear inside of you? Do military vehicles and cop cars cause the same kind of fear? How does someone go through their life in fear of an inanimate object?

I have guns in my home and I had to learn how to use them because of that. I spend a significant amount of time alone and I live in the country. I don't ever want to have to use them beyond going out into the field a few times a year to shoot. I am not afraid of guns, I am afraid of strangers with guns.

How did you come to the conclusion I'm afraid of cop cars and inanimate objects? Simply because I said I would be uncomfortable with seeing weapons in public? That seems kind of presumptuous to me.

(06-17-2016, 05:50 PM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-17-2016, 05:41 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: [ -> ]I think this goes back to FU's (or was it Maggs?) claim that some study showed that women are afraid of guns. Personally, I don't get it. Just the mere sight of a holstered gun creates fear inside of you? Do military vehicles and cop cars cause the same kind of fear? How does someone go through their life in fear of an inanimate object?

I have guns in my home and I had to learn how to use them because of that. I spend a significant amount of time alone and I live in the country. I don't ever want to have to use them beyond going out into the field a few times a year to shoot. I am not afraid of guns, I am afraid of strangers with guns.

How did you come to the conclusion I'm afraid of cop cars and inanimate objects? Simply because I said I would be uncomfortable with seeing weapons in public? That seems kind of presumptuous to me.

I guess because I realize it's not the weapon you're afraid of, but the person carrying it. Cop cars have holstered weapons in them and cop cars are in public. Guns are inanimate objects. They can't hurt you unless someone takes action to hurt you with one.

The stats on "gun deaths" should be separated into five categories; a) suicides, b) crime-related murder, c) non-crime-related murder, d) rampages/terror, e) accidents.

a) and b) are hard to fix or reduce directly by controlling guns, as they're driven to their actions (and to seek guns) by other motives. You could argue that controlling guns might reduce the number of successful suicide attempts as other methods are harder to go through with.

c) is somewhat easier as they're often spontaneous crimes of passion which may or may not result in murder if there wasn't a gun ready at hand. There's no definitive data on this because we don't stratify our data.

d) is also easier to address than a) and b) as basic screening (eg Orlando) or responsible gun ownership (eg Sandy Hook) would have prevented several of these.

...and e) is the easiest. Lock the fucking gun away like FU does and educate yourself or those who will have access to them.