Mock - GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

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(07-03-2015, 10:15 PM)Maggot Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a Motherfucker myself and have recently joined a motherfucking group of other motherfuckers.

A Mother fucker I may be, but the mother I fuck aint the mother of me.

(07-05-2015, 08:56 AM)Carsman Wrote: [ -> ]Chart doesn't tell all the real statistics. I know several friends who have guns, some even have 3 & 4, and they are not on that list, so . . . .

I'm pretty sure through out the country, the same holds true for people who own guns for "many years" (before strict registration laws) just for protection. And since they never take the gun(s) out of the house, those guns remain unregistered.

It goes without saying, criminals & many outlaws with guns are not on that chart either!

Plus we have to remember that many states, like Iowa are not required to register firearms at all. The paperwork [4473] that is filled out at the time of the purchase is just filed away in the dealers store and after 20 years can be thrown away. There is no mandatory registration in many states. I own , well lets just say enough and the government knows about none of them. So I don't know where that guy came up with his figures.

(07-05-2015, 08:33 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ]The article doesn't say anything about "murdered", Six.

It says "killed".

Ahh, so pretty much a useless statistic thrown out there for shock value then, I see

Out of curiosity I just searched to see what states have registration laws. Cal has a partial law for handguns only. Hawaii, yes on both long guns and handguns. Illinois, again yes on both. Maryland, yes on handguns. New Jersey, yes on handguns. New York, yes on handguns. Washington, No / Partial, Retail dealers must record and report all retail pistol sales to local police/sheriff and to state department of licensing.
So that gives us 5 states that have a partial registration and 2 that have registration on both long guns and hand guns. So I find it hard to believe that chart can even be close to accurate.

Source of info : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_i...s_by_state

(07-05-2015, 08:56 AM)Carsman Wrote: [ -> ]Chart doesn't tell all the real statistics. I know several friends who have guns, some even have 3 & 4, and they are not on that list, so . . . .

I'm pretty sure through out the country, the same holds true for people who own guns for "many years" (before strict registration laws) just for protection. And since they never take the gun(s) out of the house, those guns remain unregistered.

It goes without saying, criminals & many outlaws with guns are not on that chart either!

The estimate of 310 billion guns in the US in not based on registration, Cars.

There is no federal registry; the law prohibits such a registry being established. And, only two states have gun registration laws.

The estimate is instead based, in part, on the number of guns manufactured and sold in the US since way back when. Even if a gun gets transferred multiple times (legally or illegally), it's still just one gun.

The estimating methodology considered several other factors as well, including citizen and dealer surveys across the United States to determine estimated average number of guns per household by state.

Some argue the estimate is too high. Some argue it's too low. I think it's probably as accurate as one can get given the intentional lack of centralized tracking.

If you're interested in how the estimate was derived: http://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cg...ban_facpub

Thanks for posting that link HotD. I will be checking it out.

(07-05-2015, 09:17 AM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-05-2015, 08:33 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ]The article doesn't say anything about "murdered", Six.

It says "killed".

Ahh, so pretty much a useless statistic thrown out there for shock value then, I see

No, Six. You don't see.

You simply compared apples to oranges because you didn't comprehend what you'd read properly.

The article clearly states that the research was in regards to gun violence, injuries and deaths. It even addressed suicides before referencing the term "killed" which got you confused.

Anyway, the numbers aren't shocking to me.

(07-05-2015, 08:00 AM)Cutz Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-05-2015, 02:42 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ]

This would make a great "Good Places in the US. to Hunt" map as well.

I mean, what's there to shoot in Nebraska? Corn?

Good corn = good deer hunting !

Ok, I got about ¹⁄₂ way through that link and quit. I still don't find that as accurate. I mean , they start out with a estimate then add in a couple maybe's, subtract a guesstimation, round it off to what they think it may be and Ta-Da here is a number. They have no way of knowing how many guns are still around from as far back as 100 years or more , they have no way of knowing how many guns are built at home and those guns are not required to even have a SER # on it as long as the builder does not sell it. And don't just think it is only single shot pipe shotguns being built at home. AR15 & Ak-47's are being built by the hundreds in garages. They have no way of knowing how many guns are being smuggled into or out of this country. They have no way of knowing how many parts dealers are buying functional guns and tearing them apart to sell of the parts [sometimes you make more $ on the parts than you will if you sell it in working order] . I mean there are far to many guesses and unknowns for anyone to know how many guns are out there and what states own the most.

There is enough hard data and soft data for the PhDs and professional researchers to have derived the rough estimate of between 262 million and 310 million guns in the U.S. population.

Of course they have no way of knowing all of those things that you mentioned, F.U. If they did, they wouldn't need to research, survey, and apply derivative models.

If their widely-used estimate is way too low, as you seem to be suggesting F.U., it means that what the hard core gun control advocates consider problematic is even worse than presumed. I'm sure many of them agree with you about that.

You have to register a car for it to be on the road but one doesn't have to register a gun? Are you fuckin' kidding me?! I must have misunderstood what I read.

I agree that the figures are probably way off and quite possibly way low. That's one of the reasons gun control would be almost impossible if not totally impossible. That is unless it comes to be by way of the slippery slope. That's one reason gun owners like myself don't want to give even a inch. Because a inch becomes a foot and a foot becomes a yard and a yard becomes a mile.

I disagreed with the location of said guns on that chart as much as I do the number though. They have no way of knowing where the guns actually are . I will use myself as a example. I started out in Iowa, moved to Oklahoma and took a few guns when I did. After buying selling and trading I ended up moving back to Iowa 10 years later, bringing even more guns with me on that move. So any guns that were purchased there and assumed to be in that state are now gone from there. Now multiply that by thousands of people and many different states and whammo, no one knows where the guns are. I just find that chart to be unreliable.

(07-05-2015, 10:30 AM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]

You have to register a car for it to be on the road but one doesn't have to register a gun? Are you fuckin' kidding me?! I must have misunderstood what I read.

Nope, NO federal registration laws. In fact, if I remember it correctly it is against a law or rule or something for the feds to enact such a registration. However individual states can do it, but few do.

(07-05-2015, 10:35 AM)F.U. Dont ask again Wrote: [ -> ]Nope, NO federal registration laws. In fact, if I remember it correctly it is against a law or rule or something for the feds to enact such a registration. However individual states can do it, but few do.

That just blows my mind. You have to register a car and not a gun. WTF!

I've never paid attention to this. There are guns in my home and I just assumed they are licensed & registered. I'm going to ask.

Unless you live in one of the 5 states I listed they wont be registered. There is no way of doing so unless the state you are in has a registration law/procedure.
Closest thing any of the other states has is a multiple handgun form. That is a form that we dealers must fill out and send to the CLEO and the ATF if a person comes in and buys 2 or more handguns in 7 working days. There is nothing for long guns though.

No, I'm not in any of those states.

There is a gun that isn't allowed here, I think it's a long gun and you're not supposed to have them, it's something to do with our terrain and how flat it is.

(07-05-2015, 09:32 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-05-2015, 08:56 AM)Carsman Wrote: [ -> ]Chart doesn't tell all the real statistics. I know several friends who have guns, some even have 3 & 4, and they are not on that list, so . . . .

I'm pretty sure through out the country, the same holds true for people who own guns for "many years" (before strict registration laws) just for protection. And since they never take the gun(s) out of the house, those guns remain unregistered.

It goes without saying, criminals & many outlaws with guns are not on that chart either!

The estimate of 310 billion guns in the US in not based on registration, Cars.

There is no federal registry; the law prohibits such a registry being established. And, only two states have gun registration laws.

The estimate is instead based, in part, on a number of guns manufactured and sold in the US since way back when. Even if a gun gets transferred multiple times (legally or illegally), it's still just one gun.

The estimating methodology included several other factors as well, including citizen and dealer surveys across the United States to determine estimated average number of guns per household by state.

Some argue the estimate is too high. Some argue it's too low. I think it's probably as accurate as one can get given the intentional lack of centralized tracking.

If you're interested in how the estimate was derived: http://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cg...ban_facpub

There are guns manufactured in many countries other then the US of A, that find there way into this country with no accountability!! Adding to already hypothetical estimates in the first place.
Kinda waters down the chart, dont'cha think?

(07-05-2015, 10:30 AM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]You have to register a car for it to be on the road but one doesn't have to register a gun? Are you fuckin' kidding me?! I must have misunderstood what I read.

Fear that the government is gonna be able to trace guns back to their owners is a bigger concern for some people than the benefits of law enforcement being able to do so for the sake of increased public safety.

The NRA helps promote that fear; it's good business for them.

That fear is also why some gun enthusiasts claim to support background checks and enforcement of existing gun laws, but then oppose universal background checks. They live in fear of the government being able to close loopholes and gaining the ability to establish a federal gun registry. They're scared that the government will then come knocking on their doors to take away all of their guns. They hide and bury guns in anticipation of that day.

Anyway, there is one federal gun registry exception. NFA weapons are required by law to be registered with the Feds. NFA weapons include machine guns, certain parts of machine guns, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, silencers, and destructive devices such as grenades or mortars. An additional category called "Any Other Weapon" is also included.

The government does create laws that latter are amended to fit. Pass one then a year or two later another. It happens all the time. I don't think the government has a right to know how many guns a person has. The 4^th of July was just celebrated but American citizens have less liberty than it ever has due to laws that have been changed and altered once passed.
If there was no opposition to laws being written we would be as communist as China now. Not that we already aren't. With phone tapping and micro chip tracing along with marketing tactics we as a country face the ability of our government to overstep the British in the amount of liberty that many died for in the name of safety for the few that have the brains of a fruit fly.

(07-05-2015, 11:13 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-05-2015, 10:30 AM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]You have to register a car for it to be on the road but one doesn't have to register a gun? Are you fuckin' kidding me?! I must have misunderstood what I read.

Fear that the government is gonna be able to trace guns back to their owners is a bigger concern for some people than the benefits of law enforcement being able to do so for the sake of increased public safety.

The NRA helps promote that fear; it's good business for them.

That fear is also why some gun enthusiasts claim to support background checks and enforcement of existing gun laws, but then oppose universal background checks. They live in fear of the government being able to close loopholes and gaining the ability to establish a federal gun registry. They're scared that the government will then coming knocking on their doors to take away all of their guns. They hide and bury guns in anticipation of that day.

Anyway, there is one federal gun registry exception. NFA weapons are required by law to be registered with the Feds. NFA weapons include machine guns, certain parts of machine guns, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, silencers, and destructive devices such as grenades or mortars. An additional category called "Any Other Weapon" is also included.

I am OK with background checks myself. After all when doing so the buyer is only checked out, not the firearm. All we tell them is long gun or handgun. No ser #'s are given nor type of gun. SO the DG checks are no big deal.

As far as NFA & AOW goes. The Gov couldn't give a rats ass if we own those items. That is as long as they get their slice of the pie. It costs us $200 per NFA item and I believe its just 25bucks for a AOW. The difference is that a NFA , lets say a SBS, it is a shotgun that was once a long gun and has ben cut down past the legal limits. Some of these shotguns have 6 0r 8 inch barrels and a pistol grip making them a real intimidating carry gun. However they are really not all that good playing that roll of carry gun because the ammo capacity is so low.

A AOW , using the SBS example again is exactly like the one I mentioned above except that it was never assembled as a long gun. So if you can get your hands on a receiver straight from the factory you can build the same gun as mentioned above and not have to pay the big pricetag.

Now these two animals become more important when you get into the semi auto world.
You can build a AR-5 pistol and use the same rules I mentioned above and really have a real powerhouse of a weapon. A semiauto pistol shooting 5.56 nato rounds with a capacity of 100 rounds would really reap havoc. Practical? Not really. But fun as hell to play with. Plus it has interchangeable ammo and magazines with your standard AR-15.