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(05-16-2012, 12:52 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: [ -> ]so someone leaked this:

SANFORD, Fla. —

WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him.

The autopsy results come as Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O’Mara continues to go over other evidence in the case.

O’Mara wouldn't comment on the autopsy evidence, but WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said it's better for the defense than it is for the prosecution.

WFTV has learned that the medical examiner found two injuries on Martin’s body: The fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.


injured knuckles could be self-defense also.



Well, the mortician is a big fucking liar then. He said there was nothing wrong with his hands or knuckles.

I don't think I've even seen such a fucked up case for ANYTHING!!
Back and forth...back and forth.

Still wondering why he didn't have any signs of blood on his clothing when he got to the police station. If he got a bloody nose, he would have bled all over the place.
All this "stand your ground" shit sounds like utter cowboy bollocks to me.
I'm wondering if Zimmerman would have been charged right away if it had been Big Boi that he shot and killed.


Don't stalk people, online or in real life. Zimmerman followed that kid because he fit a certain profile, why didn't George just ask that kid what he was doing there? That seems like a reasonable question if you're suspicious of someone.

If that kid jumped George, I don't blame him one bit. I'm sorry he had to die for it.
(05-16-2012, 05:07 PM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]


If that kid jumped George, I don't blame him one bit. I'm sorry he had to die for it.

That's exactly how I feel about it.
Yes, we should all beat the shit out of our local Neighborhood Watch volunteers.

I live in a white neighborhood so we don't have one, but I know a crime-ridden neighborhood where I could see some action for sure. Anybody in an orange safety vest better be looking over their shoulder...
(05-16-2012, 05:23 PM)Cracker Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, we should all beat the shit out of our local Neighborhood Watch volunteers.


Did that kid know that George was a neighborhood watch volunteer? Did George make any effort at all to find out why that kid was in that neighborhood? You'd let someone follow you without complaint?
I don't get profiled often. I think because I'm white.

I don't walk around at night in bad neighborhoods. I think because I'm white.

Mexican men only follow me at the mall, but I try not to beat the fuck out of them.

Nothing Zimmerman has said has been disproven. Most of the claims made by Trayvon's family are bullshit. He was a dealer. The over-simplifying only works on simple people.


I was responding to your comment that we should all beat the shit out of neighborhood watch volunteers. George followed the kid, he didn't identify himself, he couldn't even be bothered to ask the kid what he was doing there. He stalked him & apparently the kid felt threatened, anyone would to be followed in such a manner.
How do you know he didn't identify himself? I don't remember hearing either way.

This happened because there is a certain group of people who steal from other people. That is the bottom line. If people don't like it, they should change the first part.

Who responds to being followed with violence? If you really think about it, most people don't. Most people would ask before throwing a punch. Trayvon messed with the wrong dude. Hate it for him, he was close to home (well, where he "stays at," in the local vernacular, his dad's girlfriend's rental) and he should have kept running. Fights don't always end in your own favor.
(05-16-2012, 05:55 PM)Cracker Wrote: [ -> ]How do you know he didn't identify himself? I don't remember hearing either way.

This happened because there is a certain group of people who steal from other people. That is the bottom line. If people don't like it, they should change the first part.

Who responds to being followed with violence? If you really think about it, most people don't. Most people would ask before throwing a punch. Trayvon messed with the wrong dude. Hate it for him, he was close to home (well, where he "stays at," in the local vernacular, his dad's girlfriend's rental) and he should have kept running. Fights don't always end in your own favor.


Had he identified himself there probably wouldn't have been a shooting. Had he taken the time to ask why Trayvon was in the neighborhood there probably wouldn't have been a shooting. Had George been wearing an orange vest or anything at all to identify himself as a neighborhood watch person Trayvon may not have felt threatened. George made no attempt to find out why Trayvone was there, none. Had he done so this all could have been avoided. George is playing a starring role in this and he bears the responsibility for how it went down.

I'm not defending Trayvone, I'm trying to understand the situation & find out why certain things were not done. I'd really like to know why there were no questions asked if George felt such a great deal of suspicion. When I want to know something, I ask, most people do.
(05-16-2012, 06:11 PM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]Had he identified himself there probably wouldn't have been a shooting. Had he taken the time to ask why Trayvon was in the neighborhood there probably wouldn't have been a shooting. Had George been wearing an orange vest or anything at all to identify himself as a neighborhood watch person Trayvon may not have felt threatened. George made no attempt to find out why Trayvone was there, none. Had he done so this all could have been avoided. George is playing a starring role in this and he bears the responsibility for how it went down.

I'm not defending Trayvone, I'm trying to understand the situation & find out why certain things were not done. I'd really like to know why there were no questions asked if George felt such a great deal of suspicion. When I want to know something, I ask, most people do.[/i][/size]

Did those extra E's come from frustration? Or is a Wednesday evening' woody distracting you?


I don't have a woody...yet.

The extra E's come from not caring enough to pay attention to how his name is spelled.
Eight Minutes

At 7:09 p.m., Mr. Zimmerman, who was driving to a Target store, made his call to a police dispatcher.

Within eight minutes, Mr. Martin was dead from a gunshot wound to the chest, his body crumpled on a stretch of grass behind a row of town houses. When the first officer arrived at 7:17, Mr. Zimmerman was waiting not far from the body. He raised his hands in surrender before relinquishing his 9-millimeter pistol from the holster in his waistband.

He was handcuffed and taken into “investigative detention” at Sanford police headquarters, where he was read his Miranda rights and answered questions without a lawyer present. Investigators described him as unhesitatingly cooperative. At some point, Mr. Zimmerman provided the police with a permit allowing him to carry a concealed weapon. His clothes were taken into evidence after his wife came to the station with a new set.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/us/tra...ted=1&_r=2
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47453164/ns/...7RfflKqYa9

SANFORD, Fla. — The killing of Trayvon Martin here two and a half months ago has been cast as the latest test of race relations and equal justice in America. But it was also a test of a small city police department that does not even have a homicide unit and typically handles three or four murder cases a year.

An examination of the Sanford Police Department’s handling of the case shows a series of missteps — including sloppy work — and circumstances beyond its control that impeded the investigation and may make it harder to pursue a case that is already difficult enough.

The national furor has subsided for the moment. But as the second-degree murder case against the defendant, George Zimmerman, moves from the glare of a public spectacle to the grinding procedures of the court system and eventual trial, the department’s performance, roundly criticized by Mr. Martin’s family as bungling and biased, will be scrutinized once again, though in more meticulous detail.

With doubts shadowing the quality and scope of the police work, the prosecution and the defense will be left to tackle critical questions even as they debate the evidence. And ultimately, what happened on the rainy night of Feb. 26 may come to rest on the word of one man, George Zimmerman, the 28-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer who fired the fatal shot.

In interviews over several weeks, law enforcement authorities, witnesses and local elected officials identified problems with the initial investigation:

On the night of the shooting, door-to-door canvassing was not exhaustive enough, said a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation. If officers had been more thorough, they might have determined that Mr. Martin, 17, was a guest — as opposed to an intruder — at a gated community called the Retreat at Twin Lakes. That would have been an important part of the subjective analysis that night by officers sizing up Mr. Zimmerman’s story. Investigators found no witnesses who saw the fight start. Others saw parts of a struggle they could not clearly observe or hear. One witness, though, provided information to the police that corroborated Mr. Zimmerman’s account of the struggle, according to a law enforcement official.

The police took only one photo at the scene of any of Mr. Zimmerman’s injuries — a full-face picture of him that showed a bloodied nose — before paramedics tended to him. It was shot on a department cellphone camera and was not downloaded for a few days, an oversight by the officer who took it.

The vehicle that Mr. Zimmerman was driving when he first spotted Mr. Martin was mistakenly not secured by officers as part of the crime scene. The vehicle was an important link in the fatal encounter because it was where Mr. Zimmerman called the police to report a suspicious teenager in a hooded sweatshirt roaming through the Retreat. Mr. Zimmerman also said he was walking back to the vehicle when he was confronted by Mr. Martin, who was unarmed, before shooting him.

The police were not able to cover the crime scene to shield evidence from the rain, and any blood from cuts that Mr. Zimmerman suffered when he said Mr. Martin pounded his head into a sidewalk may have been washed away.

The police did not test Mr. Zimmerman for alcohol or drug use that night, and one witness said the lead investigator quickly jumped to a conclusion that it was Mr. Zimmerman, and not Mr. Martin, who cried for help during the struggle.

Some Sanford officers were skeptical from the beginning about certain details of Mr. Zimmerman’s account. For instance, he told the police that Mr. Martin had punched him over and over again, but they questioned whether his injuries were consistent with the number of blows he claimed he received. They also suspected that some of the threatening and dramatic language that Mr. Zimmerman said Mr. Martin uttered during the struggle — like “You are going to die tonight” — sounded contrived.
Judge accepts Zimmerman's not guilty plea

The Sanford police — who contended that their 16-day investigation, done in consultation with the original prosecutor in the case, was detailed and impartial — also encountered other obstacles. One involved the investigators’ inability to get the password for Mr. Martin’s cellphone from his family, who apparently did not know it. That was significant because Mr. Martin had been talking to a girl on the phone moments before he was killed, but the young woman did not contact the police after Mr. Martin’s death was made public.

From what is known of the investigation and the available evidence, what exactly happened in the dimly lighted residential development that Sunday night may remain out of reach. Given Mr. Zimmerman’s assertion that he was acting in self-defense, and lacking enough evidence to the contrary, the original prosecutor in the case, Norm Wolfinger, whose jurisdiction includes Sanford, filed no charges against him.

That decision resulted in an increasingly strident public outcry. After Gov. Rick Scott of Florida contacted Mr. Wolfinger and had a conversation with him in late March, the prosecutor recused himself, citing, among other things, an unspecified conflict of interest.

Over all, Chief Lee, whose resignation was not accepted by the City Commission last month in a surprise vote, said in an interview that his department’s work was as fair and thorough as possible.

“I am confident about the investigation, and I was satisfied with the amount of evidence and testimony we got in the time we had the case,” he said.

“We were basing our decisions, which were made in concert with the state attorney’s office, on the findings of the investigation at the time,” he added, “and we were abiding by the Florida law that covers self-defense.”

The Sanford Police Department assigns homicide cases to its five investigators who handle major crimes. Their wide-ranging responsibilities cover everything from sex crimes to carjackings. On the evening that Mr. Martin was fatally shot, the head of the major crimes unit was on vacation. The rotation supervisor on call was a sergeant who works narcotics cases. In all, more than a dozen officers and department superiors were on the scene of Mr. Martin’s killing — which the police said was Sanford’s first homicide of 2012 — including Chief Lee, who joined the department last May.

In the two weeks after the shooting, the police were in regular contact with the office of Mr. Wolfinger, the first prosecutor in the case, sharing their findings and suspicions with him and his staff.

The police conducted a lie-detection procedure, known as voice stress analysis, on Mr. Zimmerman that he passed, and they had him re-enact the encounter with Mr. Martin back at the Retreat the day after the shooting. But the operating belief was that the police did not have enough evidence to establish probable cause for a manslaughter charge and an arrest, according to officials with knowledge of the case.

At one department meeting a few days after Mr. Martin’s death, a representative from Mr. Wolfinger’s office was told about the inconsistencies the police saw in Mr. Zimmerman’s account. The prosecutor told them he understood that the police were trying to build a case against Mr. Zimmerman, though they did not have adequate evidence, according to a law enforcement official. It was decided that more work was needed on the case.

As the national uproar intensified, the Sanford city manager, Norton N. Bonaparte Jr., and Mayor Jeff Triplett were growing eager to have the police send the case to Mr. Wolfinger to get it moving through the justice system. The police did so just over two weeks after Mr. Martin’s death. They included a recommendation that Mr. Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter, a position that one law enforcement official described as “weak,” and that the prosecutor did not act on.

Ms. Corey’s decision to charge Mr. Zimmerman with second-degree murder fueled even more criticism of the police. Mr. Zimmerman has since entered a written plea of not guilty.
well of course they do...

SEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. —

Trayvon Martin’s family is questioning a newly obtained medical report that shows George Zimmerman was treated for a fractured nose, cuts and a black eye one day after he allegedly killed Martin.


A TAWANA BRAWLEY PRODUCTION BROUGHT TO YOU BY AL SHARPTON~

[Image: 20120326_sanford.jpg]
(05-16-2012, 01:25 AM)username Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-16-2012, 01:12 AM)Cracker Wrote: [ -> ]Do your kids fit a profile? No? I bet they don't sell weed at school or steal things from other people. Your kids are NOT Trayvon, sorry.

You can't whine about fucking profiles if you CAUSED the profiles. People get all pissed off when consequences start flying. They just want to do the crime...

So you're saying that Trayvon was rightfully profiled ergo he deserved what he got?

That's exactly what she's saying. Bullshit
LC- I read earlier on that Martin’s father did not even know this happened until the next day. Was this a fact or a rumor?
I am trying to wrap my mind around the evidence that was made public. In a gated community (I live in a gated community) when an officer with lights on, ambulance, etc. are within the housing area EVERYONE knows what is going on in our neighborhood.

Very little has come out about where the father was, mother, etc. How long the father was staying with his “girlfriend”? Did the burglaries happen after Martin started “staying” with his father?
(05-17-2012, 11:58 AM)LytoMe Wrote: [ -> ]LC- I read earlier on that Martin’s father did not even know this happened until the next day. Was this a fact or a rumor?
I am trying to wrap my mind around the evidence that was made public. In a gated community (I live in a gated community) when an officer with lights on, ambulance, etc. are within the housing area EVERYONE knows what is going on in our neighborhood.

Very little has come out about where the father was, mother, etc. How long the father was staying with his “girlfriend”? Did the burglaries happen after Martin started “staying” with his father?

I wondered the same thing - how with all the lights and sirens there must have been - that Trayvon's father didn't know something was going on. I know every time I was at work in my office and heard sirens, I'd look at the clock and think where my kids were at that time. Usually, it was during school hours and I'd be relieved; but if it was while they might be on their way home from school, I'd always make an extra call to make sure they had gotten home safely. [Once after hearing a siren, I did get a call from the police - my son had had a minor bike accident.]

My recollection is that Trayvon's father said that when Trayvon didn't come home, he assumed Trayvon was with his cousin.

It's hard to imagine a parent assuming a 16-year-old would be somewhere safe when they haven't come back as expected. I don't know if the dad tried to call Trayvon - I assume not or he surely would have been worried when he didn't answer.
Well HONESTLY if I heard/saw sirens like I am positive there had to have been, and BRIGHT lights to possibly scan the crime scene for hours afterwards...if my child did not answer their phone I would be outside looking for them. Regardless of their age, PLUS if he KNEW he was walking why wouldn’t this thought come to mind? AND did he even try to call the cousin?

I don’t know if I am just different with my child because she is so young right now and a girl. BUT I know this neighborhood is NOT that large that the sirens or lights were not scene.

So I wonder if it turns out that Martin was one of the suspects in the burglaries, would Sharpton and the Black Panthers take back all their comments. That he was profiled for a REASON, not just because he was a black teenager.