(03-17-2013, 10:42 PM)username Wrote: [ -> ]Once again, this has nothing to do with race. Should a teen have the right to walk around freely without some guy chasing after him (whispering to the police while he did it)? George was the aggressor. Again, if you stalk someone and they fear for their own safety, I have no problem with them popping you in the mouth.
I've said it before but maybe Trayvon saw Zimmerman's gun and feared for his own life?
I'm so done with this. Maybe something will come out at trial that will sway me one way or another.
Hyperbole aside (stalking, really?), I think this is the reason for the divide. Some of us don't think it's okay to punch people, some of you do.
I think your argument is weak. I've seen COPS and the Olympics. Black people can run.
(03-17-2013, 11:01 PM)Cracker Wrote: [ -> ]I think your argument is weak. I've seen COPS and the Olympics. Black people can run.
Oh, fuck!
Defense counsel is definitely stealing this one.
(03-17-2013, 11:10 PM)BlueTiki Wrote: [ -> ] (03-17-2013, 11:01 PM)Cracker Wrote: [ -> ]I think your argument is weak. I've seen COPS and the Olympics. Black people can run.
Oh, fuck!
Defense counsel is definitely stealing this one.
tsk, tsk. Sometimes they ought to be able to stand their ground too.
Yes George stalked him. He was being all commando/whispering in his 911 call. He was trying to catch Trayvon doing something and it backfired on him. Maybe Trayvon freaked out about being followed by some strange guy he didn't know. Maybe it would have gone down differently if George had simply told Trayvon that he was neighborhood watch and asked Trayvon what he was doing instead of sneaking around like a fucking wannabe cop. Who knows?
The not white guy didn't need to act all vigilante either. White guys can just stand still too.
Jews aren't white. Not real Jews. They are more Arabic-y. Almost Turkish descent, I think. Footstoolish (Ottomans).
Not sure why the Jews aren't rallying. I think because they don't like to mix, bad shit happens (Obama).
(03-17-2013, 10:50 PM)BlueTiki Wrote: [ -> ] (03-17-2013, 10:42 PM)username Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe something will come out at trial that will sway me one way or another.
For instance?
Something besides George's version of what happened in the final confrontation. I don't disbelieve his word but besides the fact that he was seemingly getting his ass beat, I don't know what happened in those few minutes. Consequently, I'm not sure who I blame.
Anyone who follows another person in a covert manner deserves to get the snot beat out of them. George is a little fuck (little, fat fuck now) and instead of throwing a punch, he pulled a gun.
George was not the neighborhood watch person, he was nothing more than a regular citizen. Isn't there something posted that stated this wasn't even his community? I don't care enough to go look, I'm just here for the argument.
Zimmerman lived in the Twin Lakes gated community, as did the fiancée of Travyon's father.
Zimmerman was a Neighborhood Watch patrolman in the community. He volunteered for the post. He was not on patrol duty the night that he killed Trayvon Martin.
Ftr, police actually started questioning Zimmerman's version of events prior to the arrival of career race baiters; he was called in for questioning again 3 days after the killing. One thing that Detective Serino considered suspicious was the fact that Zimmerman claimed not to know the street name in this neighborhood where he'd lived and patrolled for years.
snip:
But Serino wondered why Zimmerman’s skull wasn’t fractured, why he didn’t know the street names of a tiny neighborhood where he’d lived for three years and why he had no defensive wounds on his hands. Serino got him to acknowledge what Trayvon’s parents and lawyers have said all along: that Zimmerman got out of his car that night not so much to check for an address to give police, but to find out where the teen went.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/21/28...rylink=cpy
There was so much inconsistent reporting when the story first gained national attention. These things are now confirmed:
-Travyon was suspended from school for pot when he was killed; he was visiting the area and staying with his dad's fiancée who was a resident of the same gated community as Zimmerman.
-Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 for assault and battery on a police officer, but charges were later dropped. Don't know what happened there.
Not sure how much background information the judge will allow at trial about either party. I really only care what happened the night of the shooting.
It's very possible for someone to start a physical altercation (by grabbing, attempting to restrain, whatever) and get their asses kicked; seen it happen many times. You don't get to start a fight with an unarmed man and then shoot him because you're losing. No matter how badly you're losing. That's not self defense.
On the other hand, if Zimmerman was going back to his truck and Travyon attacked him with no physical provocation from Zimmerman, then it was self defense (even if Zimmerman had previously been following Trayvon).
Hopefully the trial evidence will shed more light on what really happened that night.
(03-23-2012, 11:28 PM)username Wrote: [ -> ] (03-23-2012, 09:15 PM)Nina Wrote: [ -> ]Is watching or even confronting someone that you think might be up to no good a bad thing?
Yes IMO. If you don't actually witness a crime in progress, you have no business harassing people that are merely in your neighborhood. He didn't do anything suspicious at all except walk home with his damn skittles and iced tea.
If someone chased me, I'd be freaked out and I'd probably feel threatened myself (and I might defend myself accordingly).
User, I call bullshit on your answer ^^^.
Say you notice a figure moving down your street under cover of darkness, in the rain, and there've been thefts recently reported in your neighborhood.
If you noticed this person from your window, you'd simply walk away and show no interest in seeing if this individual might be up to no good?
I'd love to live in your world.
(03-18-2013, 11:48 AM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2013, 11:47 AM)Midwest Spy Wrote: [ -> ]Say you notice a figure moving down your street under cover of darkness, in the rain, and there've been thefts recently reported in your neighborhood.
Kinda like what George was doing, huh.
That was my point.
I've had no problem with what George did this entire time.
(03-18-2013, 11:59 AM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]What would your response be to someone following you in the manner George was following Travyon/
I'd be calling 911, try to remain calm and move towards a lighted area.
If my grandfather was a police officer, then I'd . . .
(03-18-2013, 11:37 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ]It's very possible for someone to start a physical altercation (by grabbing, attempting to restrain, whatever) and get their asses kicked; seen it happen many times. You don't get to start a fight with an unarmed man and then shoot him because you're losing. No matter how badly you're losing. That's not self defense.
On the other hand, if Zimmerman was going back to his truck and Travyon attacked him with no physical provocation from Zimmerman, then it was self defense (even if Zimmerman had previously been following Trayvon).
Bing-fucking-O!!!! Exactly. I could easily envision that scenario.
(03-18-2013, 11:37 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ]snip:
But Serino wondered why Zimmerman’s skull wasn’t fractured, why he didn’t know the street names of a tiny neighborhood where he’d lived for three years and why he had no defensive wounds on his hands. Serino got him to acknowledge what Trayvon’s parents and lawyers have said all along: that Zimmerman got out of his car that night not so much to check for an address to give police, but to find out where the teen went.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/21/28...rylink=cpy
And as I posted earlier this is the same detective who also said:
"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event, everything I have is adding up to what he says."
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012...ral-agency
And while not admissible in any way, Zimmerman passed a voice stress analysis. This was administered by law enforcement during the investigation, and found no deception.
You can think he is a little bitch, and big pussy, or a wanna-be cop. He probably is all three.
But Zimmerman is telling the truth. He didn't confront Martin, and Martin started the physical altercation. How do I know? The investigation found
NO EVIDENCE to the contrary.
N O N E.
I'm sticking with the evidence, not how I feel about the little butterball.
(03-18-2013, 11:59 AM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2013, 11:50 AM)Midwest Spy Wrote: [ -> ]That was my point.
I'm looking at the kid viewing George that way. As far as I can tell Travyon didn't have a clue who George was because George was acting in a furtive manner. I'll even go so far as to view George as a legitimate Neighborhood Watch person for a moment and ask why he didn't immediately identify himself as that and question T's business in that community.
What would your response be to someone following you in the manner George was following Travyon?
Exactly this. Why didn't GZ just ask TM what he was doing? If TM was indeed a delinquent and came after him when asked, GZ did have a weapon to protect himself.
(03-18-2013, 12:16 PM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]
I think I'd be hauling ass to get home given the short distance to it.
Sorry. I misunderstood your question.
I thought you meant a generic night-time-anywhere type stalking.
If I was that close to my home and the unknown stalker was on my property . . .
. . . I'd pull my weapon, shoot the bastard and then call 911 (after checking my makeup and hair).
"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event, everything I have is adding up to what he says."
That article was from a year ago, Jimbo. And Serino did ask the SA to have charges filed. And ASA Jimbo Carter accused Serino of stabbing him in the back.
And the best evidence the State has is Zimmerman's own words. Along with where Trayvon's body was found, and the bullet casing.
Too bad that Witness #6 changed his tune about MMA style blows raining down on Zimmerman. And that little picture that Witness #6 drew? Shows the struggle between Zimmerman and Trayvon moving from the grass to the sidewalk. Not the otherway around like Zimmerman stated. Serino should have had #6 draw him a picture.
(03-18-2013, 12:29 PM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ]And as I posted earlier this is the same detective who also said:
"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event, everything I have is adding up to what he says."
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012...ral-agency
And while not admissible in any way, Zimmerman passed a voice stress analysis. This was administered by law enforcement during the investigation, and found no deception.
You can think he is a little bitch, and big pussy, or a wanna-be cop. He probably is all three.
But Zimmerman is telling the truth. He didn't confront Martin, and Martin started the physical altercation. How do I know? The investigation found NO EVIDENCE to the contrary. N O N E.
I'm sticking with the evidence, not how I feel about the little butterball.
You've made up your mind, and I have not. I get it, Jim. I'm not trying to change your mind; I'm undecided on this one.
I haven't called Zimmerman or Travyon any names; I don't know what happened. I can imagine a few plausible scenarios having gone down, as I've posted.
As investigations progress, police obviously learn new information. It can change original perceptions. It's common and doesn't surprise me. I also have no doubt that political pressure influenced the depth of investigation.
You say definitively that Zimmerman is telling the truth and that he didn't confront Martin. I can't make any such definitive assertions about what happened that night, in either party's favor. I do know for a fact that the person who starts a fight doesn't always win the fight. So, it's possible that either party here was the physical aggressor, imo.
Police feel they have evidence that disputes Zimmerman's self-defense claim, as outlined in the affidavit (which, of course, does not include all evidence obtained). If their evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, is weak and/or doesn't point to manslaughter beyond a reasonable doubt, then police will have a hard time getting a conviction.
I'm gonna remain undecided till I hear both sides present their cases in court on this one and I understand that you're already set in your decision.
I'm looking forward to the trial.
