Here's the applicable law I was referring to for anyone interested:
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
(05-23-2013, 02:26 PM)LytoMe Wrote: [ -> ] (05-23-2013, 02:23 PM)Cynical Ninja Wrote: [ -> ]Hoodies are fashionable I wear hoodies and it would be nice to know I could wear them in peace without worrying about some amateur rent-a-cop stalking me like a deer and putting a cap in my ass.
I, as well wear hoodies, and my child. The problem being that people like this regardless eventually would have hurt someone with their wanna be attitude.
It was stated he tried to become a cop at one point.
Again, I am on neither side of this case. I see both points at this time. JUST HATE the parents and the race card issue.
Why would you hate the parents?
And as far as the race card, tell that to the Zimmerman's. They haven't shut up about it since day one. They are still at it.
(05-23-2013, 05:04 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think that's why Zimmerman didn't simply testify at a Stand Your Ground immunity hearing, Six? Over 70% of the time, immunity from prosecution is granted in those cases.
I know you didn't ask me, but I think it was because with all the hoopla surrounding the case there was no winning a SYG hearing.
(05-23-2013, 05:04 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think that George is lying about standing his ground against attack, as he claims now? Do you think that self defense instead applies because George will claim at trial that he was in fear for his life after he started a losing fight with the 17 year old and be covered by self defense?
I don't think he is lying about it... I think he viewed his actions as self defense, and the SYG stuff came in as a legal procedure.
Even if they concede that George was the aggressor, he still has a valid self defense claim, under the above law, based on the physical evidence of the beating he took.
George had a broken nose, facial bruises, and rear scalp lacerations to back up his story. Trayvon had no wounds from George except for the gunshot. They weren't trading blows, and there is no physical evidence George ever laid a hand on Trayvon.
FROM THE EVIDENCE AVAILABLE, it appears George was getting the stuffing knocked out of him, feared for his life, and fired his gun. That's all the defense has to show, and if that is the case the jury must find under 776.041 (2)(a) that George was justified in his action.
IMO it's a huge legal hill for the prosecution to prove 2
nd degree murder.
(05-23-2013, 04:50 PM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't matter if George was the aggressor. The Florida law is clear on that issue.
You can all hate George all you want, but the law - and physical evidence - is on his side.
Zimmerman had to use every reasonable means to escape before using deadly force. You going to tell me that a grown ass man, with about 50 lbs on this kid couldn't escape? Didn't even come out of the fight with a single defensive wound? WTF was Zimmerman doing? Just wallowing around in the wet grass? Letting some punk ass kid get the better of him?
Evidence already shows that Zimmerman lied about the sucker punch at the T. Evidence already shows that the "fight" ended 50 feet from where Zimmerman says it started. 50 feet towards Trayvon's house, and away from Zimmerman's truck.
And why in the name of Jesus did Zimmerman jump on Trayvon's back after he shot him? And ask for help to restrain him? What an idiot. The neighbor says do you need me to call 911, and George says no, I need you to help me restrain this kid? That is fucked up. The kid was laying there bleeding out and all Zimmerman worried about was restraining him? No ambulance to possible save the kid?
And, Zimmerman's vitals were all fucking normal 20 minutes after he shot this kid dead? The EMTs found no signs of stress at all? What a fucking idiot.
I'm never going to feel any different than I do now & it pleases me to no end that George fears for his life & it makes me happy to know that if he goes free he will be looking over his shoulder for years to come. George made me feel this way, no one else.
(05-23-2013, 05:23 PM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ]George had a broken nose, facial bruises, and rear scalp lacerations to back up his story. Trayvon had no wounds from George except for the gunshot. They weren't trading blows, and there is no physical evidence George ever laid a hand on Trayvon.
Stupid ass.
(05-23-2013, 05:07 PM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ]Here's the applicable law I was referring to for anyone interested:
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
George isn't claiming that he originally provoked the force.
Whether he did or didn't, it's open to interpretation (supported by evidence, not all of which will be heard until trial) as to whether the injuries that George suffered constituted great bodily harm and/or whether he was in imminent fear of great bodily harm or death.
There would also be nothing but the suspect's version of events if George changes his story and claims that he terminated use of force (he claims now that he never exerted any) before shooting Trayvon, unless perhaps the 911 audio screams for help or to stop can be attributed to George.
Written law is not applied blindly to any case without questioning the parties' versions of events and comparing them against circumstantial and physical evidence.
That's why there are charges against George Zimmerman.
I don't hate George Zimmerman or love Trayvon Martin; never met either. I just wanna see the truth come out in the courtroom. I hope it does, whichever way it goes.
George really got he crap beaten out of him didn't he?
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(05-23-2013, 04:54 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote: [ -> ]True, someone kicking your ass and you can say you in fear for your life all you got to do is say so. Even if you started the fight.
If you're a man pussy.
How come I never see anyone saying that if you follow someone in a stealth like manner you deserve what you get? It's not okay to do that and when you are confronted by the person you're following you pull a gun. That is not okay with me. I'd like to beat the snot out of George myself, I'd like to make him cry like the pansyass lil' bitch he is.
Why do some of these assholes up in here keep sticking up for that fat prick?
(05-23-2013, 12:17 PM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ] (05-23-2013, 12:07 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ]Instead, I think that they're looking to depict Trayvon as a punk and a thug who the jury could view as a kid who was easily capable/inclined to jump George Zimmerman in the dark of the night. The marijuana is just one of several pieces they'll use to paint that picture, imo.
Maybe he was a punk and a thug? Maybe he was easily inclined to jump someone? Maybe the drug, fighting, and gangsta culture he surrounded himself with are relevant?
Does he have any history of fighting and violence? If not then maybe George was just his first victim and had he lived he would have went full gangsta mode from there
.
For me it's not about defending George... but it is stunning to me how many here can see no other version of how it went down. For many of you it is all Zimmerman's fault, nothing bad about Martin should be considered, and this is a slam dunk. There is no way Martin could have jumped Zimmerman, no way he could have been up to no good, and no way he was anything other than a choirboy on the night in question.
Honestly, I don't give a fuck. Maybe Zimmerman is completely fibbing about the whole deal. Maybe he placed a non-emergency call as a set up, and then chased a kid down to kill him. But Jesus, there is plenty of evidence that this could have happened as Zimmerman said it did.
Continuing to ignore that there is the possibility of another scenario, is just flat out ignorant zealotry (see: adub).
(05-23-2013, 07:51 PM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ]For me it's not about defending George... but it is stunning to me how many here can see no other version of how it went down. For many of you it is all Zimmerman's fault, nothing bad about Martin should be considered, and this is a slam dunk. There is no way Martin could have jumped Zimmerman, no way he could have been up to no good, and no way he was anything other than a choirboy on the night in question.
Honestly, I don't give a fuck. Maybe Zimmerman is completely fibbing about the whole deal. Maybe he placed a non-emergency call as a set up, and then chased a kid down to kill him. But Jesus, there is plenty of evidence that this could have happened as Zimmerman said it did.
Continuing to ignore that there is the possibility of another scenario, is just flat out ignorant zealotry (see: adub).
Hold it right there, Mr. Bone. I do not believe this is a slam dunk.
Yeah, I absolutely believe this was all George's fault. He instigated it. His actions caused this. He's not an officer of the law but he presented himself as one, he was carrying a gun AND he was following that kid in a stealth manner, he was being sneaky. Legitimate Neighborhood Watch people do not carry a weapon, they also don't follow people, those are at least two rules those people are expected to abide by. George didn't. He took the law into his own hands.
You can't change the fact that George was whispering to the 911 operator and following or trying to follow Trayvon. Plus George seemingly never identified himself..instead, he was trying to catch Trayvon in the act. George brought whatever happened on himself. Fuck SYG in this case.
Why should anything bad about Martin be considered? He wasn't doing anything but walking down the street minding his own business. Zimmerman followed him even after being told by the cops not to. Zimmerman is safe in his truck driving and the kid is walking, why would the kid jump Zimmerman? Most likely because the crazy bastard got out of his truck and tried to apprehend him while he was playing cops and robbers. That's what I think happened. And if the kid doesn't even have any history of crime other than smoking some pot which over half the teenage population does it makes it even less likely he was in the wrong in anyway.
Fair enough, but understand that he was legally able to carry the gun. Also, the law I posted earlier makes clear that even if you bring it all on yourself and are a total douche, you are legally allowed the right to self-defense if you believe you are in danger of death or imminent harm.
That will be the claim George makes as his defense. SYG probably won't even come up.
(05-23-2013, 05:04 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ] (05-23-2013, 04:54 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote: [ -> ]True, someone kicking your ass and you can say you in fear for your life all you got to do is say so. Even if you started the fight.
Do you think that's why Zimmerman didn't simply testify at a Stand Your Ground immunity hearing, Six? Over 70% of the time, immunity from prosecution is granted in those cases.
Do you think that George is lying about standing his ground against attack, as he claims now? Do you think that self defense instead applies because George will claim at trial that he was in fear for his life after he started a losing fight with the 17 year old and be covered by self defense?
Just curious.
I think Z didn't want to testify because he would no doubt have said something to get tripped up on and give the prosecution a way to beat his version. Z probably was in fear for his life when the kid was beating his ass. He did several stupid things with the wrong kid. The kid jumped his ass and was beating the shit out of him, thug style, just wailing, no proper attack strategy. Z got his weapon and probably legaly put a stop to it.
![[Image: th_thCAPO2JDD_zps7a70bd04.jpg]](http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/Newman60/media/thCAPO2JDD_zps7a70bd04.jpg.html)
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