(05-24-2013, 10:57 AM)Cynical Ninja Wrote: [ -> ]The people trying to shift the blame for this incident onto the victim are seriously clutching at anything they can get their hands on its pathetic.
They seem to have a real problem with even the idea of a black youth being an innocent victim.
Is it at all in the realm of possibility that GEORGE was the victim here? Is it even possible that TRAYVON initiated the physical confrontation that escalated the incident?
Or are you just as willing to completely dismiss anything Zimmerman provided in his statement to police? Because the police found him to not be deceptive, and his story hasn't changed... and they weren't going to charge him with a crime until politics stepped in and turned this into a media event.
(05-24-2013, 11:14 AM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ]Is it at all in the realm of possibility that GEORGE was the victim here? Is it even possible that TRAYVON initiated the physical confrontation that escalated the incident?
Or are you just as willing to completely dismiss anything Zimmerman provided in his statement to police? Because the police found him to not be deceptive, and his story hasn't changed... and they weren't going to charge him with a crime until politics stepped in and turned this into a media event.
You are either intellectually subnormal or you are on a wind up.
You know the unarmed teenager? The dead unarmed teenager? The dead unarmed teenager who will never see his family and friends again? The dead unarmed teenager who will never see his family and friends again who is six foot underground?
Well HE is the victim ok? No one else.
As for zimmermans statement? No I'm 100% convinced he wouldn't tell lies to save his fat ass.
Jesus christ.
(05-24-2013, 11:19 AM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]
Oh..my..God! 
No! No, it is not possible that George is the victim. Snap out of it! George instigated this by following T. That's what began this.
Okay, so I am crystal clear... if I follow someone, I deserve an ass beating that may result in my death? And if that happens, I deserve it and am not a victim of violence in any way, shape or form?
(05-24-2013, 11:13 AM)Cynical Ninja Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2013, 10:58 AM)LytoMe Wrote: [ -> ]That is NOT what I was saying at all. I STATED it was JUST TALK, and that their was NO PROOF of the actually actions. That is what I said!
But in reading an article about the text messages Martin wrote, and that the defense obtained, he sounds like a "wonderful" kid. lol 
****One of Martin's cell phone pictures shows two teens about to square off against one another as a third stands in the middle like a referee. Martin said he fought a rival who "snitched on me."
Martin: "I lost da 1st round 
but won da 2nd nd 3rd."
Friend: "Ohhh So It Wass 3 Rounds? Damn well at least yu wonn lol but yuu needa stop fighting."
Martin: "Nay im not done with fool..... he gone hav 2 see me again."
Friend: "Nooo... Stop, yuu waint gonn bee satisified till yuh suspended again, huh?"
Martin told another friend at the time that his mother wanted him to move in with his dad after he was suspended.
"Da police caught me outta skool," Martin wrote.
Months later, Martin appeared to get in trouble again, but suggested on Jan. 6, 2012, that he was an innocent bystander: "'I was watcn a fight nd a teacher say I hit em." The following month he complained he got in trouble for something "I didn't do."
In between these messages, he appears to flirt with a girl and talk extensively about smoking marijuana, or "kush." One friend called him a "WEEDHEAD."
Martin's troubles appeared to get worse and, on Feb. 13, he explained to a friend that he was serving "10 dayz" of suspension.
Five days later, he repeatedly appears to inquire about a gun with a friend: "U got heat??" Hours later he's asked by text: "You want a 22 revolver?" The friend who sent the message said it was bought by "my mommy."
On Feb. 21, Martin appeared to be heading to Sanford to live with his father. But he hadn't lost interest in guns.
"U wanna share a .380?" he asked one friend.***
So even TALKING about guns is proof you are a “thug life gangsta” now is it?
And “flirting with girls”, “smoking weed”, and “getting into a fight”? Yeah clearly this guy was the next washington sniper in the making!
Girls, drugs and fighting sort of just sums up what its like to be a teenage bloke these days.
Nope, that is not what I was saying. I am saying that his WORDS, and things he was stating and indicating on doing in those messages are not of an upstanding teenager. THUG WORD ASIDE! And some guys nowadays think being called a thug is cool by the way. lol
WOW, Washington Sniper? haha That is a little harsh. He is no where near a cold blooded killer, and NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.
WHAT I personally am stating is that I think there is more to the story. I DO NOT THINK GZ is an innocent victim, never said that. ALL I AM SAYING IS there is more to the story, and what happened COULD HAVE HAPPENED exactly how GZ stated that night.
Again his story has not changed from the moment he was picked up by police to now.
(05-24-2013, 10:53 AM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ]But taking the step of concluding that because Zimmerman followed Martin, whatever happened after that was all fair game isn't how the system works. Concluding that Martin had every right to beat Zimmerman to a bloody pulp just because he was stalked is lunacy. The law doesn't work that way... you don't have that right.
If you are being followed around your neighborhood, do you have the right to attack and beat the person following you? Of course you don't. But there seems to be an argument here that somehow that is a reasonable reaction if that occurs.
First of all he wasn't beat to a bloody pulp. He had a broken nose and some scratches on the back of his head, typical of a fist fight.
First you say that it doesn't matter if George was the aggressor and started the fight as long as he feared for his life. Now you're saying that you don't have the right to attack some crazy person chasing you if you fear for your life. So which one is it?
Every day this week, the defense has released information unfavorable to Trayvon Martin to the press, stating that it may be used at trial. Some of it has not been deemed evidence and awaits Judge Nelson's ruling as to whether it can be used or not.
Recap of today's release:
1.
Fighting: Defense released a couple of texts where Trayvon mentions fighting to his friend. One he says the teacher thought he was fighting but he was really only watching. There a couple of reference to fights in texts (sounds like they could have been "match" type MMA fights rather than a street fight/altercation to me, but no context given).
2.
Weed/Guns: Also, more photos related to weed and a convoluted text exchange related to sale of 2 guns.
3.
School-related: Defense released intent to use video from a school investigation that shows women's jewelery and a screw driver found in Trayvon's backpack. (Note: no context provided; Trayvon has no criminal record.)
The prosecutor, Bernie de la Ronda, is motioning to bar this information from trial as irrelevant. He is also motioning the judge to issue a gag order against the defense attorneys discussing the case with reporters.
Martin family attorney, Benjamin Crump, states that the defense is tossing out red herrings and desperately attempting to taint the jury pool via the media.
Last night, defense attorney O'Mara filed paperwork to delay the trial by 6 weeks; he wants time to try to counter testimony of a state's expert voice witness who is set to testify that it was Trayvon Martin screaming for help/stop in the background of a 911 call.
Full story here:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013...-zimmerman
The pre-trial hearing on Tuesday, 5 /29 is gonna be extremely important.
Judge Nelson has several key decisions to hand down in regards to expert witnesses, whether evidence is relevant or simply prejudicial, whether or not to delay the start of the trial, etc...
NOTE: HLN is now covering all hearings and the trial proceedings/analysis.
http://www.hlntv.com/clusters/trayvon-martin-shooting
(05-24-2013, 11:28 AM)Cynical Ninja Wrote: [ -> ]You are either intellectually subnormal or you are on a wind up.
You know the unarmed teenager? The dead unarmed teenager? The dead unarmed teenager who will never see his family and friends again? The dead unarmed teenager who will never see his family and friends again who is six foot underground?
Well HE is the victim ok? No one else.
As for zimmermans statement? No I'm 100% convinced he wouldn't tell lies to save his fat ass.
Jesus christ.
Thanks, but it's neither. Just trying to be objective, and hope the jury can do the same.
Martin is certainly a victim, but Zimmerman from his physical injuries is also a victim.
And while you may be 100% convinced, law enforcement investigators believed him. The physical evidence backed his story up. There is no conflicting evidence to shed doubt on his story.
What has shed doubt on the story is the race hustlers who descended on it and turned this into a political soap opera.
You want innocent black youth victims? Look up stories from Chicago and NYC of the ones gunned down on sidewalks and bus stops. They weren't punching and smashing anyone into the sidewalk.
The analogy of my husband approaching a car doesn't fit. You can hear in the 911 call...George is whispering, he sounds breathless, he's trying to stealthily follow T and catch him doing something. At no point does he identify himself, call out to T or anything. T probably thought some crazy mother fucker was chasing him! I would!
T stood his ground.
(05-24-2013, 11:11 AM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2013, 10:58 AM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]
Anyone with a grain of common sense would remain in their home & wait for the cops to arrive. Which is what George should have done but he had to be Rambo and take the law into his own hands.
Well George did say that he was returning to his truck to wait for the police when Trayvon jumped him... but I'm sure he's just lying.
No he didn't. That night George said have the officer call me, and I will tell him where I am. He had already told them where the truck was. And he had said tell them to meet me at my truck, and then he changed it up. And guess what. George told the fucking truth. He wasn't at his truck.
(05-24-2013, 11:37 AM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2013, 11:28 AM)Cynical Ninja Wrote: [ -> ]You are either intellectually subnormal or you are on a wind up.
You know the unarmed teenager? The dead unarmed teenager? The dead unarmed teenager who will never see his family and friends again? The dead unarmed teenager who will never see his family and friends again who is six foot underground?
Well HE is the victim ok? No one else.
As for zimmermans statement? No I'm 100% convinced he wouldn't tell lies to save his fat ass.
Jesus christ.
Thanks, but it's neither. Just trying to be objective, and hope the jury can do the same.
Martin is certainly a victim, but Zimmerman from his physical injuries is also a victim.
And while you may be 100% convinced, law enforcement investigators believed him. The physical evidence backed his story up. There is no conflicting evidence to shed doubt on his story.
What has shed doubt on the story is the race hustlers who descended on it and turned this into a political soap opera.
You want innocent black youth victims? Look up stories from Chicago and NYC of the ones gunned down on sidewalks and bus stops. They weren't punching and smashing anyone into the sidewalk.
EXACTLY! We are on the SAME PAGE!!!!
(05-24-2013, 11:28 AM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ]Okay, so I am crystal clear... if I follow someone, I deserve an ass beating that may result in my death? And if that happens, I deserve it and am not a victim of violence in any way, shape or form?
Zimmerman did not get anywhere near an ass beating that may have resulted in his death, a broken nose and superficial scratches to the back of his head are hardly life threatening injuries.
If you don't want to be confronted don't follow complete strangers around because you don't know what the reaction of a complete stranger is going to be.
(05-24-2013, 11:32 AM)sally Wrote: [ -> ]First you say that it doesn't matter if George was the aggressor and started the fight as long as he feared for his life. Now you're saying that you don't have the right to attack some crazy person chasing you if you fear for your life. So which one is it?
First, I was pointing out that the Florida law says it doesn't matter George was the aggressor. The law specifically delineates that even if you start it, you can still defend yourself if you are in fear of grave harm or death.
You have an absolute right to self defense if your life is in danger, but that does not include being able to physically confront someone following you. Ask a cop, lawyer, or judge if you can do that. They'll tell you no, you can't.
Not my laws or constructs BTW. I didn't make the rules.
(05-24-2013, 11:37 AM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks, but it's neither. Just trying to be objective, and hope the jury can do the same.
Martin is certainly a victim, but Zimmerman from his physical injuries is also a victim.
And while you may be 100% convinced, law enforcement investigators believed him. The physical evidence backed his story up. There is no conflicting evidence to shed doubt on his story.
What has shed doubt on the story is the race hustlers who descended on it and turned this into a political soap opera.
You want innocent black youth victims? Look up stories from Chicago and NYC of the ones gunned down on sidewalks and bus stops. They weren't punching and smashing anyone into the sidewalk.
A teenager is DEAD to try and even compare that victim wise to a bloke with a broken nose and scratches to the head is insanity.
To even suggest that Trayvon was responsible for his own death for confronting and tackling a complete stranger who was following him in the dark is just utter lunacy.
To pull a gun and shoot someone manhandling him because the person didn't know who he was or why he was following him is a completely over the top and over zealous course of action to have taken.
There is a legal case and charges here.
It will go to trial and evidence will be presented by both sides.
Whether charges would have come about without public attention brought to the shooting by prominent black activists, IDK. I do know that the State of Florida investigated and evidence deemed sufficient to issue an arrest warrant exists. That doesn't imply guilt or innocence, just that it will be decided in a court of law.
Opinions regarding the merits of the case and those involved, or lack thereof for some, are interesting.
IMO, to suggest that there are no legal grounds for charges to have been brought in the first place and that our judicial system is weaker than some vocal activists or shit-stirrers is shortsighted.
The legal documents have been posted throughout this thread.
Zimmerman may be found "not guilty" of the charges (or found guilty of lesser charges) by a jury of his peers, but that doesn't invalidate the charges themselves. This is how the system works.
(05-24-2013, 11:52 AM)Cynical Ninja Wrote: [ -> ]A teenager is DEAD to try and even compare that victim wise to a bloke with a broken nose and scratches to the head is insanity.
To even suggest that Trayvon was responsible for his own death for confronting and tackling a complete stranger who was following him in the dark is just utter lunacy.
To pull a gun and shoot someone manhandling him because the person didn't know who he was or why he was following him is a completely over the top and over zealous course of action to have taken.
You're aware that Zimmerman claims Martin saw his gun, and attempted to take it from Zimmerman I assume? He also claims Martin indicated verbally he intended to use the gun on Zimmerman.
But yeah, Zimmerman should have just take his beating like a good little butterball, and let Martin take his gun.
Oh wait. Zimmerman is a liar and couldn't possibly be telling the truth.
The concept of civil rights groups or black activist groups being able to change the process of the legal system to suit their ends and wants sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theory to me.
Sounds like they have more pull than the freemasons and the illuminati put together!
“They were going to let him off until special interest groups got involved”.
That sounds like a complete crock of shit to me.
(05-24-2013, 12:05 PM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ]You're aware that Zimmerman claims Martin saw his gun, and attempted to take it from Zimmerman I assume? He also claims Martin indicated verbally he intended to use the gun on Zimmerman.
But yeah, Zimmerman should have just take his beating like a good little butterball, and let Martin take his gun.
Oh wait. Zimmerman is a liar and couldn't possibly be telling the truth.
No one is suggesting zimmerman lie there and take a beating but maybe trying to fight back using his fists first against an attacker who was younger and smaller than him may have been a more appropriate course of action? You know “reasonable” force?
I know all the things zimmerman has “claimed” but....
Oh wait. Zimmerman is telling the truth and couldn't possibly be telling lies to save his ass.
Could he?