(07-17-2012, 12:38 PM)Donovan Wrote: [ -> ]So your statistics are valid only if we include the middle and upper middle classes, whom we already know are shouldering the burden. Pretty sure it's those one percenters Obama was directing his comments at.
You must have missed it... they aren't my statistics. They come from the Internal Revenue Service.
(07-17-2012, 12:45 PM)username Wrote: [ -> ]I saw Ben Stein on some show the other day arguing that hell, yeah, raise taxes on the wealthiest individuals. He drew the line at those making $5million or more as I recall.
Surprised me coming from him.
There isn't enough wealth to tax or confiscate to pay for it all. That's the secret they don't talk about... entitlement programs are the great unfunded liabilities that are crushing budgets - best case scenario is a $45 trillion shortfall over the next 75 years. To cover that, the government would have to find $612 billion a year in additional revenue or spending cuts.
Also note that the above figures do not include any entitlement obligations from Obamacare that will reach into the tens of trillions. It also does not factor in normalized interest rates, which will likely add another $600 billion per year to our deficits when they arrive.
We have never had a tax revenue problem, it's always been a government spending problem.
source here
http://www.gao.gov/financial/fy2009financialreport.html
(07-17-2012, 01:22 PM)Cracker Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2012, 12:38 PM)Donovan Wrote: [ -> ]So your statistics are valid only if we include the middle and upper middle classes, whom we already know are shouldering the burden. Pretty sure it's those one percenters Obama was directing his comments at.
Can you do math at all? The top 1% should pay 1% of the fucking taxes, not more than 1/3. How in the fucking hell can you people possibly ask them for more?
*scratches head*
Under a flat tax system, the 1% (upper incomes) would still contribute way more than 1% of the taxes.
(07-17-2012, 01:56 PM)username Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2012, 01:22 PM)Cracker Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2012, 12:38 PM)Donovan Wrote: [ -> ]So your statistics are valid only if we include the middle and upper middle classes, whom we already know are shouldering the burden. Pretty sure it's those one percenters Obama was directing his comments at.
Can you do math at all? The top 1% should pay 1% of the fucking taxes, not more than 1/3. How in the fucking hell can you people possibly ask them for more?
*scratches head*
Under a flat tax system, the 1% (upper incomes) would still contribute way more than 1% of the taxes.
Are you sure? There aren't very many people in the 1%, many more in the 99%.
I'm not going to explain proportion, but stop and think about it for a minute. If we taxed all income, ALL INCOME at say 10%, everybody is paying the same proportion, the same share. If you have more, you pay more, but it is the same percentage of the same total.
And that's only income tax. We pay sales taxes and service taxes and use taxes and property taxes and transportation taxes and taxes you don't even fucking know you pay.
A larger portion of every dollar earned goes to tax than to actual value in goods and services.
If it were only income tax, people wouldn't bitch so much. But it isn't.
(07-17-2012, 01:51 PM)Jimbone Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2012, 12:45 PM)username Wrote: [ -> ]I saw Ben Stein on some show the other day arguing that hell, yeah, raise taxes on the wealthiest individuals. He drew the line at those making $5million or more as I recall.
Surprised me coming from him.
There isn't enough wealth to tax or confiscate to pay for it all. That's the secret they don't talk about... entitlement programs are the great unfunded liabilities that are crushing budgets - best case scenario is a $45 trillion shortfall over the next 75 years. To cover that, the government would have to find $612 billion a year in additional revenue or spending cuts.
Also note that the above figures do not include any entitlement obligations from Obamacare that will reach into the tens of trillions. It also does not factor in normalized interest rates, which will likely add another $600 billion per year to our deficits when they arrive.
We have never had a tax revenue problem, it's always been a government spending problem.
source here http://www.gao.gov/financial/fy2009financialreport.html
I agree. It bugs the shit out of me that both parties dismissed the bi-partisan deficit reduction committee's recommendations out of hand.
You people need to cultivate apathy.
(07-17-2012, 02:08 PM)Riotgear Wrote: [ -> ]You people need to cultivate apathy.
We have a society of apathetic fuckers who don't feel impelled to do or achieve anything. We need more? Why? I already have a pet.
We need to cultivate pride and honor. You really need both.
Lulz. You're a horrible judge of character. Haven't you been following along?
I read enough to make me think most people shouldn't get to decide things for me. They have no fucking sense. They decide how they "feel" about something without thinking about it very hard. I don't give a shit how somebody else "feels" about something. Use your fucking head instead.
Most of the population is a Shade of Clang.
(07-17-2012, 01:58 PM)Cracker Wrote: [ -> ]If we taxed all income, ALL INCOME at say 10%, everybody is paying the same proportion, the same share. If you have more, you pay more, but it is the same percentage of the same total.
I think that was something Herman Cain had trouble getting through to some of his flat tax system critics.
Anyway, link below is a good article (imo) about the 1% vs. 99% that I read a few months back, if anyone's interested.
A couple of more interesting stats from the article:
The top 1 percent of earners in a given year receives just under a fifth of the country’s pretax income, about double their share 30 years ago. They pay just over a fourth of all federal taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center. In 2007, they accounted for about 30 percent of philanthropic giving, according to Federal Reserve data. They received 22 percent of their income from capital gains, compared with 2 percent for everybody else.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/busine...wanted=all
(07-17-2012, 02:20 PM)Cracker Wrote: [ -> ]I read enough to make me think most people shouldn't get to decide things for me. They have no fucking sense. They decide how they "feel" about something without thinking about it very hard. I don't give a shit how somebody else "feels" about something. Use your fucking head instead.
Most of the population is a Shade of Clang.
Oh. I thought you said I need pride and honor. That made me laugh.
Again, I'm not going to explain proportion or what pretax means. Anybody who has taken statistics knows the value of statistical data.
Isn't pretax is that stuff nobody thinks can get you pregnant?
I'm going to fuck you up.
I love it when you talk sexy.
I'm going back to what I was doing.
I guess I am one of the few old school people left in this country. Earn what you have, don't ask for stuff you don't earn yourself, take care of your own, expect the same of everybody else. If you need help, consider it a loan and pay it back.
I don't even want to know the real percentage of the population that produces vs. consumes. It would just disgust me more.
(07-17-2012, 02:20 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ]A couple of more interesting stats from the article:
The top 1 percent of earners in a given year receives just under a fifth of the country’s pretax income, about double their share 30 years ago. They pay just over a fourth of all federal taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center. In 2007, they accounted for about 30 percent of philanthropic giving, according to Federal Reserve data. They received 22 percent of their income from capital gains, compared with 2 percent for everybody else.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/busine...wanted=all
I love how "just over a fourth of all federal taxes" is actually 36.7% according to the IRS. Clever way of using words by the liberally biased Tax Policy Center... which is run and underwritten by the Brookings and Urban Institutes, two well known liberal think tanks.
I have to admit, I couldn't read the rest of the article after coming across such a blatant stretch of the truth.
(07-17-2012, 02:38 PM)Cracker Wrote: [ -> ]I guess I am one of the few old school people left in this country. Earn what you have, don't ask for stuff you don't earn yourself, take care of your own, expect the same of everybody else. If you need help, consider it a loan and pay it back.
I don't even want to know the real percentage of the population that produces vs. consumes. It would just disgust me more.
I'm with you Cracker. Self responsibility used to be something taught and to be proud of.
Now it is more about wanting what someone else has, and not wanting to lift a Lee Press-on fingernail to get it.
We (as a country) might actually be able to get something done if we completely reformed campaign financing.
Politicians pander to the special interests/lobbyists/money. THAT makes me sick.