Mock

(07-25-2012, 11:41 PM)tlynne Wrote: [ -> ]Man, its hard to believe that out of all the people they supposedly have dna from, that no one else has been identified! I still dont believe for one second that alex cousino wasnt involved in this.

This is kind of a random question but would it be unconstitutional or something if, lets say at birth, it was required to have your dna on file somewhere? I know its a pretty radical idea but if the gov had everyones dna already in a databank... maybe there wouldnt be so many situations such as this where they have dna evidence but no match? Sorry if i sound like an idiot. Just crossed my mind as i was reading tonight.

I'm all about privacy and the government honoring it. However if they did that and simplified the identification process to catch people well...I'd vote for ya

(07-25-2012, 11:23 PM)shitstorm Wrote: [ -> ]Anyway, in the mean time the defendants are smoking in the garage and they hear the struggle and think "what the fuck's going on?" So they open the door see what's happening and without even thinking drop the cig while walking back into the house.

Yup.


This case is seriously fucked up. I just can't believe they can't come with up the other people at the house that night.

I think the party the night before is what's made it so difficult. That's a lot of fingerprints, etc. If you think about it, its kind of a shocker that they were able to find anything (besides the couple and tape).

(07-26-2012, 12:11 AM)ArmyMom Wrote: [ -> ]Hello Everyone,
This is my 1^st post on here & I hope I do it right.

Do you think it is possible that the cigarette could have come in on someones shoe? You know how you throw it down & step on it to put it out. Could it have stuck then or when the investigators 1^st got there?

Also, I just can't stop thinking about the time line of everything. I know shitstorm brought it up recently, too. The 1^st time the police came to the house the lights & TV were on but when then returned they were off. How can that be, unless everyone was in the house at that time?

Welcome to the board!!

I don't think it came in on someone's shoe because the first day of the prosecution's testimony (the three part, full-length videos) he described the butt as "perfectly rounded" and "smoked down to the filter". I say they were very nervous to the point that they had to go outside to cool off, calm down, and figure out how they were going to seal this up.

I had a theory on how the butt got inside the home "unharmed" so to speak, Post: #21358. I think they heard Johnny struggling inside, rushed into the house and just dropped it without even thinking or realizing.

Adrenaline makes people very sloppy and forgetful. For example, many folks, including myself, like to carry concealed knives around for protection (legal in many states). However its widely shared amongst people who teach self defense with knives that adrenaline has a way of making you drop the knife, cut yourself, or forget how to open it in a panic. Their nerves were so high that 3+ people walked right by the butt when leaving (either not noticing or thinking anything of it).

As for your comment about the lights. Since no one else went into the house before Big John after the crime, the killers were still inside when Tiffany first arrived. The second time when other arrived the lights and tv were off.

The killers probably realized once the Tiffany and then a cop came by looking around that people knew something was wrong. They probably figured it would look like Johnny and Lisa left, or went to bed by cutting the lights off and lowering suspicion. Buying time.

(07-26-2012, 12:11 AM)ArmyMom Wrote: [ -> ][font=Arial]Hello Everyone,
This is my 1^st post on here & I hope I do it right.

Do you think it is possible that the cigarette could have come in on someones shoe? You know how you throw it down & step on it to put it out. Could it have stuck then or when the investigators 1^st got there?

If I recall correctly, the cigarette still looked cylindrical in the photo, which would indicate that it had not been stepped on/smashed.

(07-26-2012, 12:13 AM)Aberlin Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-25-2012, 11:41 PM)tlynne Wrote: [ -> ]

I'm all about privacy and the government honoring it. However if they did that and simplified the identification process to catch people well...I'd vote for ya

Maybe if everyone knew their dna was already in a databank then people might be less motivated to commit crimes? I dunno like i said its a pretty radical idea. I dunno. Im kind of getting off subject i guess. It just really shocks me thay ac would send such a cryptic text message a day after the murders... yet her dna supposedly is on none of the evidence? I dont believe it

(07-26-2012, 12:13 AM)Aberlin Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-25-2012, 11:41 PM)tlynne Wrote: [ -> ]Man, its hard to believe that out of all the people they supposedly have dna from, that no one else has been identified! I still dont believe for one second that alex cousino wasnt involved in this.

This is kind of a random question but would it be unconstitutional or something if, lets say at birth, it was required to have your dna on file somewhere? I know its a pretty radical idea but if the gov had everyones dna already in a databank... maybe there wouldnt be so many situations such as this where they have dna evidence but no match? Sorry if i sound like an idiot. Just crossed my mind as i was reading tonight.

I'm all about privacy and the government honoring it. However if they did that and simplified the identification process to catch people well...I'd vote for ya

I vote No! we need less Government not more!

Its one of those things...you don't want the government violating our privacy, but then in a case like this you wish they had it.

Ahhhh...there's no middle ground in anything

Anyone have any thoughts on what other charges the jury may convict them on even if they find them innocent of the murder charge? I don't recall all of the other charges.

(07-26-2012, 12:11 AM)ArmyMom Wrote: [ -> ]Hello Everyone,
This is my 1^st post on here & I hope I do it right.

Do you think it is possible that the cigarette could have come in on someones shoe? You know how you throw it down & step on it to put it out. Could it have stuck then or when the investigators 1^st got there?

Also, I just can't stop thinking about the time line of everything. I know shitstorm brought it up recently, too. The 1^st time the police came to the house the lights & TV were on but when then returned they were off. How can that be, unless everyone was in the house at that time?

Welcome ArmyMom Good to have you!

(07-26-2012, 12:34 AM)pfifltrigg Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone have any thoughts on what other charges the jury may convict them on even if they find them innocent of the murder charge? I don't recall all of the other charges.

I know that one of the charges was kidnapping. In Ohio, depending on what degree the kidnapping charges are (1^st or 2^nd), or even the classification of kidnapping (there's many stipulations within "kidnapping"). They could get 15yrs...they could get life.

(07-26-2012, 12:33 AM)NightOwl Wrote: [ -> ][quote='Aberlin' pid='271392' dateline='1343275980']
[quote='tlynne' pid='271384' dateline='1343274077']

I vote No! we need less Government not more!

I agree with you but if you werent out commiting crimes then you would have nothing to worry about. If you've got nothing to hide then it shouldnt really matter.

TOLEDO BLADE
DNA evidence presented in Williams murder trial
Cause of death: Asphyxiation due to suffocation, strangulation

Link



Black duct tape wrapped around the necks of Lisa Straub and Johnny Clarke to hold plastic bags in place was so tight, it cut off the blood to their heads, and eventually their air, a deputy Lucas County coroner testified in Common Pleas Court.

Maneesha Pandey was the final state witness in the aggravated murder trial of Samuel Williams, who faces the death penalty if convicted. The 26^th witness in the case, Dr. Pandey told a jury of nine women and three men on Wednesday that Ms. Straub and Clarke died of asphyxiation from suffocation and strangulation caused by a bag over their faces and tape around their necks.

Williams, 24, and co-defendant Cameo Pettaway, 23, are both charged with two counts of aggravated murder and kidnapping and one count of aggravated burglary in the Jan. 30, 2011, deaths of Ms. Straub, 20, and Clarke, 21.

The two were found in the home of Ms. Straub's parents with their hands bound behind their backs and plastic bags secured tightly around their necks. Clarke's ankles also were bound with duct tape.


Jurors in Williams' case are expected to hear closing arguments today, then proceed to deliberations. Dr. Pandey is expected to testify today during the trial of Mr. Pettaway, whose case is being heard by a jury of nine women and three men in a different courtroom.

During the third day of testimony at both trials, investigators and analysts spoke of the evidence collected at the Longacre Lane home in Springfield Township where the bodies were found.

Of all the evidence collected, a discarded cigarette butt -- and only that cigarette butt -- contained the DNA of both Williams and Mr. Pettaway, a DNA analyst said Wednesday in both courtrooms.

Cassandra Agosti, laboratory supervisor for the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation's Bowling Green lab, testified that her analysis of a Newport cigarette butt found in the Straub home contained the two defendants' DNA. She also testified that the majority of DNA detected on other evidence from the scene belonged to either Ms. Straub or Clarke.

Mrs. Agosti said DNA was detected on some of the duct tape, parts of the victims' cell phones, and other items but did not match any of the nearly 90 genetic profiles submitted for comparison from suspects, witnesses, and others associated with the case.

In particular, defense attorneys pointed out that the DNA of "unknown female number one" was found on the tape and in the pockets of Clarke's pants and sweatshirt.

When questioned by Mr. Pettaway's attorney, Mark Geudtner, Mrs. Agosti said Mr. Pettaway's DNA was not found on any of the other evidence from the scene, nor could science determine when or where the DNA was deposited on an item.

Additional testimony is expected in Mr. Pettaway's case today.

After the state rested its case in Williams' trial, the defense called Sheriff's Detective Jeff Kozak as its sole witness. In response to questions from attorney John Thebes, Detective Kozak said he learned Clarke was a suspected marijuana dealer, but he did not identify his supplier. He acknowledged that of the hundreds of crime scenes he's encountered, none was similar to what he encountered at the Springfield Township home.

Mr. Thebes then questioned the detective about a statement made by Erik Yingling, who testified at Williams' trial Tuesday. Yingling, who acknowledged he had a significant criminal record involving mostly thefts, testified that Williams told him some details of the crime while the two were in the Lucas County jail in December, 2011.

Mr. Thebes recited details given by Yingling and the detective acknowledged that some of that information was provided to the public in the form of 911 calls or other court records. Detective Kozak testified that some of the information Yingling provided could not be verified through the investigation.

When questioned by Assistant Prosecutor Jeff Lingo, Detective Kozak said he interviewed hundreds of people during the investigation and while doing so, was able to eliminate many as suspects. He said he was not able to eliminate Mr. Pettaway or Williams, the only ones whose DNA was positively identified inside the home.

Detective Kozak said he also learned, from several interviews, about rumors that the Straub home had a safe containing $100,000. This was something Clarke apparently "bragged" about, he testified.

Judge Dean Mandros asked jurors hearing Williams' case to be ready to begin deliberations today. Since it is a death-penalty case, jurors will be sequestered from the start of deliberations until a verdict is reached.

If Williams is found guilty, a second trial phase will begin, during which jurors will decide whether to recommend a death sentence.

Mr. Pettaway does not face the death penalty. Judge James Bates ruled before his trial's start that he meets the legal definition of mentally retarded, making him ineligible to be condemned if convicted.

I was drawn to this case by the nature of how this young couple died; so brutal and violent. Seems as though many details are not being covered in court, i.e, timeline, blood on Lisa, Tiffany describing a
ransacked home (there was mention of a window at top of door or on side of door) that she looked through,
but i think it was determined that you couldn't see condition of home due to hallway or stairs.
i always felt Tiffany knew more than she stated to others. i did think there would be a more detailed
process in court answering all those unknown questions we have.
Main purpose of my post is to thank the posters who have given up personal time to attend court, post information, research case, especially Mustang, OTD, LC, etc. Just too many to mention. I do appreciate
it so much. This case continues to haunt me.
I am not sure of laws in Ohio, but just being present at the scene of the murder makes you equally guilty
(as the actual killer.) For example, Colorado has that law.

(07-26-2012, 12:28 AM)Aberlin Wrote: [ -> ]The killers probably realized once the Tiffany and then a cop came by looking around that people knew something was wrong. They probably figured it would look like Johnny and Lisa left, or went to bed by cutting the lights off and lowering suspicion. Buying time.

Thank you Aberlin for clearing the cigarette up for me. I haven't had time to watch all of the videos yet.
As for the lights being turned off, I just can't stop thinking "What if......?". I mean I know we can't have the police busting down doors for no reason but maybe if they would have had the whole truthful story from Maytee & Tiff they could have done something to stop it. IDK, to think that they may get away with it is just making me so sick!

If it's true that Sam & Cam shared a cig in/near the garage, then I think there HAD to be at least one other person in on it. I can't see them leaving Johnny in the house alone - restrained or not - while they're out having a smoke and a chat. Someone would've stayed back with Johnny.

Aberlin, I know you spend a lot of time here (and that's a good thing)! But can you tell me where) without going way back and reading very old posts) there has been any testimony or article about a party the night before? It is my understanding that there was not a party. I know we're all on over load, but I would have thought that would have come out sometime in the last week because it would have complicated the DNA process!

(07-25-2012, 11:09 PM)Aberlin Wrote: [ -> ]I personally think we are getting too caught up in "who pulled the trigger" because every single person who was there lead to the victim's demise. Accidental or not, doesn't matter...Johnny was premeditated murder.

Aberlin, your posts are awesome! I think you're right about nerves so high & panic mode setting in. If they went to rob and hunt for heroin all they needed was a gun and ski masks & gloves bind them up but, don't kill them, then you've got the whole situation under control, you find what your looking for & leave. I'm just not understanding why these characters did what the hell they did, Johnny & Lisa were bloody well tortured to death, as Big John said.

I believe there are more witnesses' to testify maybe if we are lucky we'll find out the rest of the story. The way I understand it they have 3 Males DNA & 1 Female DNA.

The only one I can come up with having a grudge would be Cousino.

OTD
i don't think there was a party night before murders, but early on, posts mentioned a pool party at
Straubs home a week or so before murders (not sure of exact days). I remember wondering if it was
a swimming pool party or a pool table party. As it turns out, the Straubs have both. Another detail i
remember is the phone line being cut but that wasn't
mentioned either. It has been a long time since i read
those posts, so my memory might suck.

I also remember it being stated very early on that there was a party either the night before or a couple nights before. I don't recall there being a debate about whether or not that was true. My memory is not that of an elephant, however...