(02-06-2011, 01:08 PM)pinkyfloyd Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2011, 12:55 PM)Jane Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2011, 12:51 PM)pinkyfloyd Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2011, 12:37 PM)Jane Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2011, 11:13 AM)curiouscat Wrote: [ -> ]I have heard from a reputable source that there was lots of DNA found under Lisa's nails, and there was all indication of a very, violent struggle. Should they identify a suspect, they have plenty of DNA to nail them with.
Someone is walking around with scratch marks, on their face, arms, neck, etc..
oh and in addition, if there was plenty of dna found under lisa's nails, it could have easily have been 100% johnny's.
-pink
"official word" doesn't mean a whole lot to me, when it's common knowlege LE will keep a tight lid on some things, that only the killer/killers would know. I hope it's true, & there really is plenty of DNA under Lisa's nails.
sure they might keep a tight lid on some small details of a crime, however there's been nothing released since the initial stuff.
you all are going to be very disappointed about this one. luckily for you though, the disappointment will not hit all at once, it will slowly be built up in inverse proportion to how many times you post here about this crime and recycle old information.
there's no new evidence to be gathered, and nobody's going to ever be caught. sad as that sounds, you can count on it. this case is already a week old, and nobody in toledo can keep any sort of a secret, big or small. i grew up there, it's one of the most transparent cities in the country.
and, as I have mentioned before, there are also some big reasons why the area citizens aren't all up in arms about this one. most of the people in the area don't view johnny and lisa as two who will be particularly missed, and the people in the area also feel that the only people who might really miss them, wouldn't be missed either if they were to suffer the same fate. there's likely to be a certain amount of thankfulness actually, for the elimination of what many would feel were a couple of bad seeds.i speak the truth even when it's uncomfortable to read it.
-pink
Sadly, I have to agree with you on this. (the above area in bold)
(02-06-2011, 01:17 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]Not necessarily so, DNA profiles are not obtained overnight. It seems to me that while the LE initially botched this case by not following up on the Mothers call throughly; they are taking their time and being careful. Believe me, LE don't want any additional heat regarding this case. It's also great that FBI are involved. Forensics takes some time, there is evidence analysis, and criminal profiling that has to be done. Criminal profiling will play a huge part in this investigation because of the nature of the crime. While the crime was not well planned, there seems to be sadistic torture involved. Suffocation is a slow, painful way of dying. I do believe that they have suspects, but are waiting on more evidence. Also the house, and cell phone records must be obtained through court order.
the house is useless to them now, evidence-wise.
any LE out there want to chime in with how long it would typically take for the paperwork to obtain cell phone records? I'd be shocked if it took more than 24 hours.
-pink
(02-06-2011, 01:15 PM)pinkyfloyd Wrote: [ -> ]interestingly enough, no statements from either johnny's father or lisa's parents.
as terrible as it is to say, they might be actually sharing in tiny little bit of the relief i described above.
even though they were their children, a teeny tiny sense of relief in the fact that the tumultuous book has finally been closed.
-pink
Johnny's father has made a pubic statement. He stated " I hope the police finds them before I do" , referring to the perpetrators. Johnny's father was very upset and crying. According to a broadcast I saw, the neighbors are also scared and concerned. One neighbor said that people are now locking their doors, and looking out for one another. I hardly feel the Mother feels a sense of relief, this kid was only 21, he still had time to be molded into a productive citizen. It's true, however; that I've not heard any public statements by Lisa's parents. Lisa's parents still may have made one, that I haven't heard.
(02-06-2011, 01:22 PM)Jane Wrote: [ -> ]Sadly, I have to agree with you on this. (the above area in bold)
my statement comes not from conjecture but directly from talking to people who live there today, as we speak.
my brother's home is less than five miles from the scene. parent's home less than eight. both of those homes have high-end security systems, neither of them were ever activated at night prior to this crime, neither of them are activated at night now as a result of it.
-pink
(02-06-2011, 01:17 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2011, 01:01 PM)pinkyfloyd Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2011, 12:55 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: [ -> ]Pinky: yet the police have no suspects
i wouldn't bet on that. 
I'm not betting on that...i have a peculiar way to only base my conjecture on officially released information. i myself have suspects, see previous. having a suspect doesn't necessarily put you any closer to finding the killers.
if the suspects were in the "inner circle" then there would have been arrests already.
-pink
Not necessarily so, DNA profiles are not obtained overnight. It seems to me that while the LE initially botched this case by not following up on the Mothers call throughly; they are taking their time and being careful. Believe me, LE don't want any additional heat regarding this case. It's also great that FBI are involved. Forensics takes some time, there is evidence analysis, and criminal profiling that has to be done. Criminal profiling will play a huge part in this investigation because of the nature of the crime. While the crime was not well planned, there seems to be sadistic torture involved. Suffocation is a slow, painful way of dying. I do believe that they have suspects, but are waiting on more evidence. Also the house, and cell phone records must be obtained through court order.
Good points made. I think LE is feverishly working on this one, even though I don't really think they botched anything. I can certainly see why the public might think so, though.
(02-06-2011, 01:22 PM)pinkyfloyd Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2011, 01:17 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]Not necessarily so, DNA profiles are not obtained overnight. It seems to me that while the LE initially botched this case by not following up on the Mothers call throughly; they are taking their time and being careful. Believe me, LE don't want any additional heat regarding this case. It's also great that FBI are involved. Forensics takes some time, there is evidence analysis, and criminal profiling that has to be done. Criminal profiling will play a huge part in this investigation because of the nature of the crime. While the crime was not well planned, there seems to be sadistic torture involved. Suffocation is a slow, painful way of dying. I do believe that they have suspects, but are waiting on more evidence. Also the house, and cell phone records must be obtained through court order.
the house is useless to them now, evidence-wise.
any LE out there want to chime in with how long it would typically take for the paperwork to obtain cell phone records? I'd be shocked if it took more than 24 hours.
-pink
You're right. I feel allowing family to have house cleaned the next day, is almost unheard of. This is another botch credited to the fine LE. Hopefully they took plenty of photo's. A Criminal profiler can assess her information from those, both physical, and non physical evidence.
(02-06-2011, 01:26 PM)Jane Wrote: [ -> ]Good points made. I think LE is feverishly working on this one, even though I don't really think they botched anything. I can certainly see why the public might think so, though.
only think I see them as possibly perceived by the public as "botched" is that they may have actually done a drive-by when johnny and lisa were still breathing. however they had no reason to be kicking down doors at that point.
think about it, cop cars drive right by crimes in progress all of the damn time. however we have laws in this country that protect us from randomly having our doors kicked in for no good reason.
-pink
I think sometimes people fail to understand that just because someone says there is a problem does not mean the police can go around kicking doors in. That would be hugely inappropriate & create serious problems. They have so many limitations placed on them. It sucks but it is what it is.
(02-06-2011, 01:26 PM)Jane Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2011, 01:17 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2011, 01:01 PM)pinkyfloyd Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2011, 12:55 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: [ -> ]Pinky: yet the police have no suspects
i wouldn't bet on that.
I'm not betting on that...i have a peculiar way to only base my conjecture on officially released information. i myself have suspects, see previous. having a suspect doesn't necessarily put you any closer to finding the killers.
if the suspects were in the "inner circle" then there would have been arrests already.
-pink
Not necessarily so, DNA profiles are not obtained overnight. It seems to me that while the LE initially botched this case by not following up on the Mothers call throughly; they are taking their time and being careful. Believe me, LE don't want any additional heat regarding this case. It's also great that FBI are involved. Forensics takes some time, there is evidence analysis, and criminal profiling that has to be done. Criminal profiling will play a huge part in this investigation because of the nature of the crime. While the crime was not well planned, there seems to be sadistic torture involved. Suffocation is a slow, painful way of dying. I do believe that they have suspects, but are waiting on more evidence. Also the house, and cell phone records must be obtained through court order.
Good points made. I think LE is feverishly working on this one, even though I don't really think they botched anything. I can certainly see why the public might think so, though.
I agree Jane, I do think they are wanting to solve this case badly, the whole country is watching. Especially after Nancy Grace episode on this crime.
(02-06-2011, 01:24 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2011, 01:15 PM)pinkyfloyd Wrote: [ -> ]interestingly enough, no statements from either johnny's father or lisa's parents.
as terrible as it is to say, they might be actually sharing in tiny little bit of the relief i described above.
even though they were their children, a teeny tiny sense of relief in the fact that the tumultuous book has finally been closed.
-pink
Johnny's father has made a pubic statement. He stated " I hope the police finds them before I do" , referring to the perpetrators. Johnny's father was very upset and crying. According to a broadcast I saw, the neighbors are also scared and concerned. One neighbor said that people are now locking their doors, and looking out for one another. I hardly feel the Mother feels a sense of relief, this kid was only 21, he still had time to be molded into a productive citizen. It's true, however; that I've not heard any public statements by Lisa's parents. Lisa's parents still may have made one, that I haven't heard.
Got to agree with you on this, since he was so young. I also see the other side. I heard my father tell my sister once, he'd rather see her 6 ft under, than to have to worry constantly if she's safe, hurt, in a ditch dead, wandering the streets, fucked up, etc..(she was in her mid 40's at the time, though)
Maybe Johnny couldn't stay with his mother if she has a record as part of his parole.So then maybe that's why he was staying at Lisa's parents house.Just a guess.
(02-06-2011, 01:28 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]You're right. I feel allowing family to have house cleaned the next day, is almost unheard of. This is another botch credited to the fine LE. Hopefully they took plenty of photo's. A Criminal profiler can assess her information from those, both physical, and non physical evidence.
i don't see this as a botch. lisa's parents were not home yet, uncle owns a professional cleaning service (i think that was mentioned) and if LE was done with the scene, no reason to let it sit and fester and potentially subject lisa's parents to a crime scene. good uncle was just doing what he thought was best for the faimly and LE was done at the scene. i'm sure there are plenty of photos available to them if they want to see what the crime scene looked like. odds are, however, they never set foot in the house anyhow and likely never will again. good luck selling that house in this market.
btw, the fact that LE allowed this to be done so quickly speaks to me about the amazing lack of evidence that was likely present. nobody had the feeling that there was anything to be find with another thorough once-over of the scene.
some random thoughts and conjecture of mine:
1) the key means nothing. no key with any sort of markings on it means anything at all.
2) the central security documents found on the counter: this to me was the reason that the rummaging was done. these professionals wanted to know exactly what sort of security system they might be being subjected to at that moment, find out if there was video anywhere on the premises.
the pink theory still in 100% full effect and not chipped away in the least. standing tall and proud.
-pink
(02-06-2011, 01:30 PM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]
I think sometimes people fail to understand that just because someone says there is a problem does not mean the police can go around kicking doors in. That would be hugely inappropriate & create serious problems. They have so many limitations placed on them. It sucks but it is what it is.
to me it totally doesn't suck...it's one of the benefits of living in a democracy.
-pink
It sucked in that particular circumstance. I'll try to give a bigger & better explanation for my comments the next time.
(02-06-2011, 01:37 PM)browntabby1226 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe Johnny couldn't stay with his mother if she has a record as part of his parole.So then maybe that's why he was staying at Lisa's parents house.Just a guess.
lisa did not know johnny prior to him being released from prison in june. he had to have been staying somewhere between the time he was released and the time he moved in at lisa's.
someone earlier mentioned that maybe lisa's parent's resigned themselves to say that if she insists on seeing this man, then it's not too terrible to be keeping him under our thumb a bit so we can at least have a clue what's going on.
likely another reason we have not heard from lisa's parents, lots of second guessing going on there, and likely a lot of self-blaming, even though none of it is deserved. these two were adults.
-pink
(02-06-2011, 01:13 PM)pinkyfloyd Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2011, 01:11 PM)Jane Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if Mom's involved, or not, but she clearly is a whack-job, & knew what all her son was involved in . . .
i actually do agree that she's a bit of a whack-job, and you couple this with her recently losing a son and to me it's a wonder that she can even get out of bed in the morning. -pink
Her child is dead at a young age with a checkered past.
Now, he will never be able to redeem himself.
Remember the line from the movie Chinatown?
"Politicians, ugly buildings, and whores all get respectable if they last long enough."
Mom may be trying redeem her son, post mortem.
Grief and denial.
(02-06-2011, 01:43 PM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]
It sucked in that particular circumstance. I'll try to give a bigger & better explanation for my comments the next time.
yes, in this particular circumstance, for sure. If we're to believe that T actually saw inside the house, that it was ransacked, I'm still stuck on why LE didn't see the same thing. At least by the 2
nd time they went out. Puzzling, since we don't know for sure, T said this. It's what the mother says T said.
(02-06-2011, 01:40 PM)pinkyfloyd Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2011, 01:30 PM)Duchess Wrote: [ -> ]
I think sometimes people fail to understand that just because someone says there is a problem does not mean the police can go around kicking doors in. That would be hugely inappropriate & create serious problems. They have so many limitations placed on them. It sucks but it is what it is.
to me it totally doesn't suck...it's one of the benefits of living in a democracy.
-pink
You're right, but only if that democracy applies across the board. It's on the news all the time how police kick in people doors unwarranted, and nothing is done about it. I'm not a police basher, and I feel kicking in the doors was unwarranted at that time. Only if they'd gotten out of their crusers, took a flashlight and looked in the windows, they may have seen what Johnny's cousin saw and been able to save the victims. Johnny's Mother stated to the dispatcher, someone may have kidnapped, and robbed my son. This certainly was no drive by matter, they should have taken the call more serious.
(02-06-2011, 01:49 PM)Jane Wrote: [ -> ]yes, in this particular circumstance, for sure. If we're to believe that T actually saw inside the house, that it was ransacked, I'm still stuck on why LE didn't see the same thing. At least by the 2nd time they went out. Puzzling, since we don't know for sure, T said this. It's what the mother says T said.
if I'm not mistaken, the mother did not start with this ransack talk until the second call, when she was on scene herself. she could have been already subconsciously manipulating her thoughts and opinions she had earlier, she had a lot on her mind at the time, and remember that she was a bit of a whack-job even before all this started.
i'd say it's extremely tough to put even the smallest amount of faith in pretty much anything that the mom says right now, or has said from the beginning.
-pink