Mock

(07-26-2012, 09:41 AM)misshmarie23 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-26-2012, 07:05 AM)pspence Wrote: [ -> ]Lucas county jail, blabbing away??.... I don't know, I'm Leary....

Seriously I wonder that too

while your in jail all you have is time with these other people he could have been talking to erik about there past jail history and felt like he was trust worthy everyone has to let out a secret and being that he couldnt get off his chest what he did over the phone or threw mail because those are recorded and read. he thought he could trust a older man in there and figured maybe he could get advice because he has so much jail history..criminals arent very smart if they were they wouldnt get caught at all for their crime. with his charges i am sure he thought this older guy could give him advice on maybe how he could get out of it. noone takes something so serious to then grave without speaking about it to a soul ya know. just my thoughts..
[/quote]

This is what I think:
Sam Williams isnt as dumb as we think. Read the transcripts of the
jailhouse calls. His use of the English language is obviously dumbed down,
but he isnt dumb. He was SUPER secretive with everyone on the 5^th floor of the jail where he was being held. Secretive with conversations related
to his case, secretive about his paperwork, secretive about the whole
shabang, to everyone. Then all of a sudden he decides to share his
deepest secret with a man he has no ties to, has a case that really
couldnt/wouldnt benefit to snitch in exchange for a lighter sentence/
reduced charges/significant early release etc. I think SW hand picked
this man because of all these reasons. He would be believable, he
doesnt have an extensive record, hes older, hes well spoken(in comparison
to the large majority hes jailed with) and the guy wouldnt gain any
or minimal benefits from snitching, and also is a father and seems like someone who would be more compassionate (weak) about keeping
this sort of secret (hence the details of the bag crinkling).
SW told the guy what he wanted the public and authoritiesto know.
That it was accidental. Its enough to muddy the waters against
a death penalty verdict. SW says in his jailhouse conversation transcripts
to Steven Pettaway, that he has it under control and not to worry. They
are almost there, just keep Cam quiet.."Rock Solid".
Eric wasnt a random confidante...there was a purpose in it.

(07-26-2012, 12:33 AM)Aberlin Wrote: [ -> ]Its one of those things...you don't want the government violating our privacy, but then in a case like this you wish they had it.

Ahhhh...there's no middle ground in anything

Nope, not when it comes to the rights we enjoy. You go down that road and you have a totalitarian police state.

(07-26-2012, 12:44 AM)tlynne Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-26-2012, 12:33 AM)NightOwl Wrote: [ -> ][quote='Aberlin' pid='271392' dateline='1343275980']
[quote='tlynne' pid='271384' dateline='1343274077']

I vote No! we need less Government not more!

I agree with you but if you werent out commiting crimes then you would have nothing to worry about. If you've got nothing to hide then it shouldnt really matter.

How about you consent to a monthly search of your home. If you have nothing to hide, no problem, right?

(07-26-2012, 01:05 AM)blueberryhill Wrote: [ -> ]I was drawn to this case by the nature of how this young couple died; so brutal and violent. Seems as though many details are not being covered in court, i.e, timeline, blood on Lisa, Tiffany describing a
ransacked home (there was mention of a window at top of door or on side of door) that she looked through,
but i think it was determined that you couldn't see condition of home due to hallway or stairs.
i always felt Tiffany knew more than she stated to others. i did think there would be a more detailed
process in court answering all those unknown questions we have.

Yeah, a lot of important information has not even been addressed. This is a really shitty job all the way around. I don't think local LE and prosecutors are up to it and it makes me sick.

(07-26-2012, 01:51 AM)Aberlin Wrote: [ -> ]Chime in here folks if I'm incorrect.

Since the beginning of everything there was an endless amount of talk about a party the night before. I could have overlooked a post where someone debunked that, but so far, I've always hear from numerous posts that there was a party the night before.

Stories like "we they could have been at the party the night before" to "no, people who were there said Sam and Cam weren't there."

Even before Sam and Cam came into public knowledge there was talk about a party. If I got that one wrong I apologize and would love confirmation either way.

That party or get together has been discussed throughout this thread. IIRC, Zack was there. It was the night before the murders.

(07-26-2012, 12:43 PM)imsuchawildflower Wrote: [ -> ]are almost there, just keep Cam quiet.."Rock Solid".
Eric wasnt a random confidante...there was a purpose in it.

i feel his converstation with steve pettaway about cam staying "rock solid" was guilt that he hadnt been. i don't feel he was talking in much code just street talk and avoiding saying he actually killed him i understood everything he was saying. he wanted steve to make sure cam wasn't talking about the case to anyone nomatter what anyone was telling him. detective and other people like to use "so & so" already told us you was involved so why don't u tell me your story. if they was smart he wouldn't of made a phone conversations like that at all. he just thought using someone else's pin was being smart i believe the jailhouse snitch though because he knew a lot of details even knew about pettaway using someone else's pin.

(07-26-2012, 12:46 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: [ -> ]discuss DNA database here perhaps:

http://mockforums.net/thread-4734.html?h...a+database

thankyou.

Thanks, LC.

this case alone makes me want to push myself HARDER to get my degree so I can one day become a detective. to put away sickos like these.

(07-26-2012, 12:22 PM)shitstorm Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-25-2012, 11:41 PM)tlynne Wrote: [ -> ]This is kind of a random question but would it be unconstitutional or something if, lets say at birth, it was required to have your dna on file somewhere? I know its a pretty radical idea but if the gov had everyones dna already in a databank... maybe there wouldnt be so many situations such as this where they have dna evidence but no match? Sorry if i sound like an idiot. Just crossed my mind as i was reading tonight.

Yes, that's a terrible invasion of privacy and it violates the constitution. Your DNA is the the blueprint of your physical self and you don't want that in the hands of strangers. Some states have had stealth DNA collection on infants and they were busted and sued. You have no idea what someone in possession of your DNA could be using it for. It can be sold to research and pharmaceutical companies and they can patent YOUR DNA without your knowing. It can be CLONED. Personal information about your DNA, like genetic information can be sold. While it certainly can be helpful in criminal cases, it's a minefield in terms of your right to privacy.

Thanks Shitstorm!

Picking up on another poster who brought this up: I would like to know, once and for all, what it's possible to see from the side light at Straubs' front door. The police clearly said they saw no signs of disturbance when they checked the place out. Tiffanny said the house looked ransacked and mentioned cupboards being open. Is that side light clear glass or just translucent stained glass that you can't see through? If so, how would Tiffany have been able to see anything that the cops couldn't see?

(07-26-2012, 01:46 PM)misshmarie23 Wrote: [ -> ]this case alone makes me want to push myself HARDER to get my degree so I can one day become a detective. to put away sickos like these.

If you want to become a police officer or sheriff deputy, you're in the right place! Maybe you should ask Lady Cop for some career advice.

I know we all want a facts only story and the full truth of what happened but no matter what, there were no witnesses apart from those involved. By definition, if you're involved there's always a possible conflict of interest. Our expectations, unfortunately, are too high in light of that...this isn't NCIS.

We can speculate and get very close I believe, but there's no "magic bullet" in solving this completely. Hence why we have to focus on "involvement" and "contribution" as opposed to "who physically taped the necks, the one who taped the ankles isn't important...that didn't kill them". Well they're both guilty of the crime because they are participants.

The more specific the prosecution gets, the more the defense will blind people by battling tiny details and making everyone lose sight of the whole picture.

So yes if you want someone to be charged based merely on circumstantial evidence you can only go so far in giving details. Every detail you add could very well serve as another pin hole for the defense to spread open.

It sucks yes, but even with a full confession we'll never know if something was changed or left out. So we can't have a "scientific fact only" account of what happened because scientifically we only have a cig butt. However all the circumstantial evidence added up provides, to me at least, reason enough to not doubt the defendant's involvement.

Just my two cents and I'm holding to it.

(07-26-2012, 01:46 PM)misshmarie23 Wrote: [ -> ]this case alone makes me want to push myself HARDER to get my degree so I can one day become a detective. to put away sickos like these.

I hope your dream comes true! I've a question re phone call Sam made to Cam "Cam, I need you to get in my drawers bro - I need you to get - I need - you know what time it is bro. I need all that gone." misshmarie23 what do you think he needed gone?

(07-26-2012, 02:19 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: [ -> ]probably a weapon or drug shit Owl.

I vote vibrator lol

(07-26-2012, 01:06 PM)misshmarie23 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-26-2012, 12:43 PM)imsuchawildflower Wrote: [ -> ]are almost there, just keep Cam quiet.."Rock Solid".
Eric wasnt a random confidante...there was a purpose in it.

i feel his converstation with steve pettaway about cam staying "rock solid" was guilt that he hadnt been. i don't feel he was talking in much code just street talk and avoiding saying he actually killed him i understood everything he was saying. he wanted steve to make sure cam wasn't talking about the case to anyone nomatter what anyone was telling him. detective and other people like to use "so & so" already told us you was involved so why don't u tell me your story. if they was smart he wouldn't of made a phone conversations like that at all. he just thought using someone else's pin was being smart i believe the jailhouse snitch though because he knew a lot of details even knew about pettaway using someone else's pin.

I'm hoping and praying the Jury believes Erik Yingling!

(07-26-2012, 02:16 PM)NightOwl Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-26-2012, 01:46 PM)misshmarie23 Wrote: [ -> ]this case alone makes me want to push myself HARDER to get my degree so I can one day become a detective. to put away sickos like these.

I hope your dream comes true! I've a question re phone call Sam made to Cam "Cam, I need you to get in my drawers bro - I need you to get - I need - you know what time it is bro. I need all that gone." misshmarie23 what do you think he needed gone?

Illegal items that were in the house nothing that had to do with this case. ... u figured these guys are known drug dealers and quote on quote pimps....can u imagine that they would have anything that had to do with this case that been unsolved for a yr and just have evidence or anything from the scene sitting inside a dresser drawer inside their home.....reason for c.p to be the first to call c.p has always been obligated to have money on his phone for jail calls for his brother who was incarcerated s.p. and also benefiting him considering the life he choose to live

Sorry I haven't posted sooner. I did not make to court today, but I was at Pettaway's trial yesterday morning and Williams trial yesterday afternoon. Mostly tedious cell phone records that were used to support the accounts of Zach Burkett, Tiffany Williams and Alex Cousino, at least to some extent. Cell tower records support Alex and Zach's story of Alex leaving her home in East Toledo and picking up Zach before heading to the IHOP in Springfield Township with her grandparents (whose house in Springfield they had gone to), and then returning to East Toledo. However, this all occurred by 4:00pm Jan. 30, so it doesn't mean anything relative to the crime.

Phone records also indicated a complete (and reportedly very unusual) cessation of phone calls between Sam and Cameo between 9:41pm and 12:59am Jan. 30-31. My inference being that they knew there approximate location could be tracked.

So many questions have been raised by Mockers the last few days that I've been unable to respond to that I'm not sure I remember them all.

The State compared DNA from the scene with samples taken from, as far as I recall since joining Mock, every possible suspect mentioned here with the exception of one - Ben Dennis. His sample was never taken because, the investigator testified, he had already been eliminated as a suspect.

The account given by Eric Yingling bothers me because some of the irregularities, such as Sam initially telling him things started in the basement (they hadn't), the need to tape the bag on Lisa if she was already dead (which others here have offered plausible explanations for) and his account that after leaving they used a garage door opener taken from the house to close the overhead garage door and tossed it in the yard (Jeff Straub that the opener "appeared" on his kitchen counter months earlier. He doesn't know where it came from but assumed Lisa or one of her friends left it there. He tried to program it to work his door but was unsuccessful). It couldn't have been used to close the door. It seems to me that one explanation for the irregularities is that Yingling got his information from the internet. His criminal record, aside from the child support charge, involved using his computer to steal, and he admitted he was "phenomenal" with computers. Discovery documents, etc would have provided him access to that info to concoct his story, and the 911 call from Maytee accessible online mentions the basement. One thing the prosecution hit on yesterday while interviewing Detective Jeff Kozak was that the list of seized items was never made public. If so, Yingling did not find out about the Iraqi Dinar online. I'm a latecomer to Mock. Have ANY of you been aware of the Dinar prior to it being introduced as evidence at trail?

After hearing all the evidence, I would like to float another theory; Alex Cousino is the only common thread between Sam/Cam, Johnny/Lisa AND Maytee. Could Alex and/or Maytee have set the whole thing up to rob the "safe," and planned the torture to take place in the basement? For whatever reason, maybe too tough of a struggle, they used the kitchen because that's where they were able to subdue Johnny. It's even plausible to me that Alex would have taken a cigarette but from either Sam or Cameo's house with the intent to frame them. If Yingling was coached by Alex or Maytee he would have been given their planned story as opposed to what actually happened, peppered with other facts that were either made public or shared with families of the victims. If the Dinar were not made public, I would have to believe Yingling must have learned of the from someone who was there. But not necessarily Sam.

Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind after hearing the jail phone call between Sam and Steve Pettawy which (because Sam used another inmates PIN to dial out), he assumed would never be traced to him. The other calls, where he professes his innocence, I believe were only played in court so that jurors could easily tell that it was Sam's voice on the phone. A fact corroborated Cam's babymama.

Sam and Cam are guilty. No question in my mind whatsoever after it in Sam's own words. But Yingling's testimony raises questions about who else was involved. Mention of the basement is particularly damning for Maytee. I hope investigators are exploring any possible connection between Yingling and the other players, especially Maytee and Alex.

Trying now to remember other questions raised here and will post what I learned in court relative to those questions as I recall them. As I think you all know, Williams case is with the jury now, and Pettaway's will be by the end of the day.

Fuck! Pettaway just released! Defense granted a motion for acquittal!